The Manband Forum

General Category => Man - General Discussion => Topic started by: George Jones on November 25, 2008, 06:28:26 PM

Title: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: George Jones on November 25, 2008, 06:28:26 PM
Good afternoon everyone,

I am writing to inform you that their have been a series of changes in the band over the past 24 hours.  Martin Ace has left the group to form a new outfit, Phil Ryan has also disbanded.  Myself and Bob will continue to play as MAN with a new line-up.  We hope that you can continue to support the group in this difficult time.  We look forward to performing MAN music old and new, as well as looking towards recording new material in the new year.

I wish Martin and Phil all the best for the future.

MAN apologize for any inconvenience caused by the band during the cancellation of the recent gigs, we look forward to seeing you all soon.

Best Wishes,

George Jones.

Man's first gig of the new year will be at the 100 club on Friday 10th April.

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on November 25, 2008, 06:50:05 PM
Well, Man were No1 at Cherry Red, the new line up was beginning to bed down, and they had just completed a new album, so we should have known they'd shoot themselves in the foot again. I must admit alram bells were ringing when they announced they had opted to go into the studio instead of play gigs this Autumn. Not the choice of the quintessential live band I've tried to follow all these years.  ??? Exasperated of Edinburgh.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Gavin Crumpton on November 25, 2008, 06:53:27 PM
I'd like to wish the new Manband the very best for the future.

I'm glad the band are continuing after the uncertainty of recent weeks. I think the band is in good hands with George and Bob and I look forward to seeing the band in the new year and hearing the new material.

All the best guys

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on November 25, 2008, 07:33:46 PM
Good luck to the new Manband from Unstately Nationsounds Manor!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete Feenstra on November 25, 2008, 08:19:12 PM
Well you know what they say, 'old wine in new bottles'...its the stuff of life.....Im sure future a new line-up  will work as long as the songs are as good as the core of 'Diamonds & Coal', keep on trucking boys...anything to kill teevee!!!
PF
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete T on November 25, 2008, 08:27:35 PM
Well, there's news now..
 Good luck and best wishes to the Manband members, old and new..
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Dan Singh on November 25, 2008, 08:29:04 PM
..alram..

Must be one of those "age" things..
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on November 25, 2008, 08:41:58 PM
Oops, that would be the Slade Skool of Speeling ... thanks, Dna Snigh, for pointing that out!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Tony Smith on November 25, 2008, 08:49:04 PM
 ;) Well George the ship is in your hands now , steer her well my friend , good luck , and if we can be of any help you know where we are!

all the best  to you and Bob

cheers
tony  ;)
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Bill Leslie on November 25, 2008, 08:57:55 PM
Just like to be the latest to offer my support and best wishes to the next incarnation of MAN. Looking forward to seeing the new line-up somewhere in Swansea soon.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on November 25, 2008, 09:57:39 PM
I'm bitterly disappointed I may never see Phil Ryan again. However, that's made up by reading the ship is in the hands of George and Bob.   Two fine musicians and self effacing lovely fella's. I've long felt that with their talents and ages they should be kicking on with their own careers in a different band. Maybe under the name of Man, they can now do this. I would go well out of my way to support them. Frankly, I feel pleased with this. Good luck George and Bob!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: rayman on November 25, 2008, 11:06:17 PM
Sad to read the news,im sure everybody will continue to support the band,good luck to you George & Bob ,im sure you will do the Manband proud, best of luck to Martin,Josh ,& Phil with their new ventures ...
Im just putting some news on the other bands page hopefully to cheer you all up a bit.
       
      Cheers Jeff.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Campbell on November 25, 2008, 11:21:43 PM
Good luck to George and Bob and the others,wont be too easy getting the right people for the legendary band.You can do it
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: John Bannon on November 26, 2008, 12:08:27 AM

I am writing to inform you that their have been a series of changes in the band over the past 24 hours.  Martin Ace has left the group to form a new outfit, Phil Ryan has also disbanded.  Myself and Bob will continue to play as MAN with a new line-up.  We hope that you can continue to support the group in this difficult time.  We look forward to performing MAN music old and new, as well as looking towards recording new material in the new year.


Wow, wasn't expecting that news, even in the present climate...... although in hindsight it was always going to be difficult continuing with Martin and Phil living in different countries. I wish them both well in any new ventures they get involved in.
It's down to George and Bob to take the band forward now.....I guess its all about getting the mix of the new musicians right.
I'm personally quite excited by this if they choose the new members well, with Man's fourtieth anniversary coming up and the publicity that should create and maybe some new music on the horizon....can only see good things happening for the band.
Looking forward to seeing the band in the New Year.

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Alan Davies on November 26, 2008, 01:13:53 AM
Thanks for the update George and very best wishes for the new line up. It's disappointing in some ways as the disbanding line up was sounding so good. It's also exiting and a new combination is something to look forward to.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on November 26, 2008, 01:24:33 AM
Well, its the same old Manband again, nice to know that some traditions never die!
Good luck with the new line up George and Bob, and hope to see you again next year. Lets have a proper tour again please!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: martin ace on November 26, 2008, 02:25:24 AM
 Hello Everyone,
                    I thought I was pretty clear, but maybe there's been a misunderstanding.
Just to get some things straight, yes, Phil Ryan did leave the band but I certainly did not.
MAN didn't split up but George Jones and Bob Richards have been fired.The reasons for this are not a matter for discussion on this board and the protagonists are fully aware of the facts.
Me and Josh Ace will continue with Rene Robrahn on drums and James Beck on guitar as MAN.
The new album, produced by Phil, won't come out for the upcoming tours of Britain and Germany. We will record another one in January with the new line up.
                                                                    Best wishes to you all,
                                                                                                 Martin Ace
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mark Davies on November 26, 2008, 09:18:30 AM
Oh dear, Oh dear :(
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete T on November 26, 2008, 09:26:57 AM
My worst fears. Man have turned into Wishbone Ash..
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martyn Jones on November 26, 2008, 10:12:54 AM
All I can say is good luke George with the new line up looking forward to seeing the band next year and the new album to.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on November 26, 2008, 10:28:38 AM
Right, my diplomatic restraint has gone.

It's great to hear from Martin. However, and accepting I don't know the full facts here, I am nevertheless disappointed that he has used emotive words such as 'fired' and 'protagonists' to describe George and Bob, especially in comparison to the more measured and diplomatic statement originally put out by George. The result is that he has lost any sympathy I might have had for his position.

George, Bob - you will understandably be tempted to respond to Martin's comments, but there's really no need to. Leave that to us.

Best wishes for the new album and line up. Stick to your guns.



 
 
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on November 26, 2008, 10:57:33 AM
We don't know the circumstances so cannot judge Martin's use of language. "Fired" and "protagonists" don't strike me as particularly emotive, I must say, and I have to confess I was more annoyed by George's initial denial and then his dissembling announcement of the "changes".

The facts may not be a subject for discussion but in the nature of forums they sure as hell are going to be a subject for speculation. We love these guys, and want to know what, as Robert de Niro would say, just happened? First the whole Effigy business, then a split announced by Jim Driver and denied by George; then one version by George and another by Martin. This is politics, not rock and roll, and we want rock and roll! (It's only rock and roll.) None of this of course does any service to the reputation and memory of the good ship and all who have sailed in her either past or present.

Who knows what happened about the Effigy stuff, but presumably it was a prelude to this Wishbone Ash storm. Perhaps the album mix was the centre of it, or the direction, or the choice of songs. I dread the thought that there's a brand new Phil Ryan Man album which may never see the light of day. But watever happened to trying songs out on the road, letting them form organically? Maybe the ability to tour was behind all this disruption. I really miss seeing the band live. And bloody hell, I miss Micky.

Maybe it's time up. I'd rather see the band fold than tear itself apart into smaller and weaker parts of the original whole. I'd rather see a Manband with a musical connection to its past than one bearing the name but striking out in some bold new direction. Nothing wrong with bold new directions, but they deserve bold new names. It seems to me that Martin bears the flag, which he can carry or pass on.

I saw T Rex a couple of years ago. Mickey Finn had reformed the band just before his death, so the members of that band were entitled to call themselves T Rex rather than a tribute band. And the sound was very good. But it was a tribute act, not a living thing. Don't know why that just popped into my head.

Kinda tough to promote a 40th anniversary under these circumstances. Maybe we should just wait for the 50th!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete Clarkson on November 26, 2008, 11:43:25 AM
I'm Spartacus!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Peter Steventon on November 26, 2008, 12:13:22 PM
So who will be Man..... George?s band or Martin?s band
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on November 26, 2008, 12:17:06 PM
I'm thinking maybe Deke and Phil could get together wth John Mackenzie and Tweke and Dave Charles ...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on November 26, 2008, 12:23:31 PM
Maybe now would be a good time to reform Alkatraz! Back in 1976 it felt like they were going to carry the torch after Man split.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martyn Jones on November 26, 2008, 01:01:27 PM
Lets hope they do not get into the mess Wishbone ash have got themselfs into as it seems to have got very ugly, any one know who owns MAN I always thouht it was Micky Jones's band if that is the case then his son George may be able to carry on, but as we have seen with band names it can be a mine field
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on November 26, 2008, 01:24:28 PM
It was always said that Man belonged to whoever was in it at the time of course. Which is no help in this situation! Five potential Manbands  - in the good old days that used to be called a Welsh Convention. Maybe that's the way forward - a perpetual package tour of different Manbands.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martyn Jones on November 26, 2008, 01:55:58 PM
Thanks Oric for that still dose not help any of the band like the package tour idea though
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on November 26, 2008, 03:38:49 PM
...any one know who owns MAN....

I believe this has been Martin, in which case he would be entitled to use the name  - and George wouldn't.

Mind you, I'm rather warming to the concept of....and trying to be correct legally here....Man (featuring Martin Ace)....and George Jones's Man. Or even Son of Man.

George, Bob - get on with that album.

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on November 26, 2008, 04:03:39 PM
And technically and biologically, George Jones is of course Micky Jones's Man ... I'll get my coat.

A propos of nothing, does anyone know what the f*** Pete Tonsend was singing about when he sang Don't Let Go the Coat?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: William Rait on November 26, 2008, 05:00:33 PM
hiya Oric-you've been busy today. Bored or something? Anyway, Firstly I'd like to say that this is Man and they ,as has been pointed out, are merely carrying on the great Man tradition. As has been said by others, The 70's Man bands never seemed to carry the same line up from one album to the next let alone the great period of stability from 83 to 2000's. I am , however, upset by the wrangling between the band members and for either side to tell us more will merely add to the denials, counter denials and other needless controversy. Let's wait for Deke's definitive version in his next book.(if you ever read this, get a move on Deke!) To be controversial and at the risk of upsetting everyone much as I love Deke to me Man is/was Mr Micheal Jones esq. He it was who was in every incarnation of Man. Other people came and went(and came back again and went again and then, just to pass the time, came back....AGAIN) As Oric says what we don't want is a Wishbone Ash Fleetwood Mac etc etc etc scenario where the row over who gets the name or who is entitled ruins the legacy of whilst not the greatest , one of the most loved and adored bands in the world. Let's get the rows sorted, get the new album out and for both new bands get the music going (especially up here to the Land that Man forgot)
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: John Bannon on November 26, 2008, 06:03:07 PM
There's only one answer to who has ownership of the name Man.
Both groups need to get onto Harry Hills TV Burp and just before the interval enter from different doorways....you know what I'm going to say......FFFFFIGHT!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: William Rait on November 26, 2008, 06:16:52 PM
There's only one answer to who has ownership of the name Man.
Both groups need to get onto Harry Hills TV Burp and just before the interval enter from different doorways....you know what I'm going to say......FFFFFIGHT!!!!!!!!!
I go and change my picture to the Buddha and he says FFFFFFight!!!!!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on November 26, 2008, 06:54:28 PM
Bloody hell! I go away for one night and look what happens!!
Shades of Dave Brock and Nik Turner... let's hope that it doesn't get too contentious.
Man wouldn't be Man without this sort of news every now and again but I feel this is too fundamental.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: John Bannon on November 26, 2008, 07:25:59 PM
Bloody hell! I go away for one night and look what happens!!

So it's your fault, I knew you'd be to blame.......well someones got to be.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on November 26, 2008, 08:21:09 PM
Oh Dear Oh Dear! In that case , good luck to Martin and Josh Too.
Really don't know what to think now, except best wishes all round.
Hopefully something more solid in the way of an explanation about future plans will appear here from the horses mouths soon.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Alan Davies on November 26, 2008, 09:39:44 PM
Personally I don't give a sh!t what happened or who said what. They are all brilliant musicians who have given me enourmous pleasure since 1973. I'll be intending to see however many bands emerge out of this, whatever they are called.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: John Bannon on November 26, 2008, 09:56:58 PM
Personally I don't give a sh!t what happened or who said what. They are all brilliant musicians who have given me enourmous pleasure since 1973. I'll be intending to see however many bands emerge out of this, whatever they are called.
Alan, Can only agree with you about the musicianship of the people involved in Man past, all of the highest quality and that's why we love them.
The question is....how many bands can emerge from this.....been into Julians memorabilia site under logos and as long as every future Man band promises to stick to one logo....we can have up to ten.....that could be interesting.
I suppose an argument would then ensue between the parties involved as to who should have which logo.....
The best logo for me is the Rick Griffin logo from the Maximum Darkness LP....not even going to suggest who carry's that into the future....I've enough enemies already.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: JohnnyS on November 26, 2008, 11:51:58 PM
Good luck -look forward to seeing you in April.

and happy christmas!

JohnnyS (first post!)
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: JohnnyS on November 27, 2008, 12:08:31 AM
great start, hey?

that'll teach me to read all the way through to the end of a thread.

This is all a shame, if only on the basis that the gig they played in the pissing rain at the rhythm festival was one of the most powerful performances by any band I've ever seen - only bummer was that the rain delayed start, meaning no spunk.

whatever will come out of it will be great, I'm sure. Just wish Phil was part of it too - whichever of the two halves.

JohnnyS
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on November 27, 2008, 03:22:54 AM
Bloody hell! I go away for one night and look what happens!!
Shades of Dave Brock and Nik Turner... let's hope that it doesn't get too contentious.
Man wouldn't be Man without this sort of news every now and again but I feel this is too fundamental.

Too fundamental indeed - I can't help but think this is an occasion where that the band(s) should be allowed their own time and thoughts rather than us all piling in and praising or damning. Let's just see what happens and then decide whether we like it or not!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on November 27, 2008, 04:04:21 PM
 ???

Yeah, great.

A couple of days off and then ... Carry on, George and Bob! Carry on, Martin and Josh! Carry on, Phil! Please think about you fans - we want to listen to some of the old and some of the new tunes. If you have to play in seperate groups, do if you must. But do it, for f.cks sake!!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Allan Heron on December 02, 2008, 05:09:08 PM
I've been on holiday for the past couple of weeks and intending to finalise my arrangements for the Swansea Xmas bash when I came back....but only to discover this train wreck of a thread.

Very disappointed (not least as the new album looks as if it will remain in the vaults) but moreso for the manner in which this all seems to have happened.  We're all used to the fact that we've been dealing with a version of the Manband that no longer contains any original members of the band but the changes have been evolutionary and have seemed to be a natural conclusion to the community feel that the band has always encompassed.  However, these latest changes seems to knock this for six.

Will I be interested to hear the output from the individual members?  Undoubtedly.   Do either of the outfits being discussed remain worthy of the use of the Manband name?  I'm not sure that they do. 

All I can say is that I was very pleased to be able to see the band with Phil earlier this year at Milkwood Jam and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.  Just a shame that the undoubted potential of that concert isn't going to be able to be transferred to the new music being played by that same line-up in future.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Michael Heatley on December 02, 2008, 10:44:23 PM
Does the fact this thread has lain undisturbed for a week mean that
(a) everyone's said what needed to be said or
(b) we are past caring?

Maybe that's a poll!  :o


Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Tony Smith on December 02, 2008, 11:03:14 PM
I dont think were past caring, the bands music has been in most of our blood for a long time , i think its a matter of well lets see what happens who's going to do what .. and be able to make it work ect or will the whole thing crumble and thats the end ,  one things for sure the music is there and thank goodness for the remasters , and im glad we took cameras to some of the gigs  and im glad we did God Walking Past and im sure we will do other stuff so what ever happens the history will be preserved!  :)

cheers
tony
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Dave Bardsley on December 02, 2008, 11:08:47 PM
Does the fact this thread has lain undisturbed for a week mean that
(a) everyone's said what needed to be said or
(b) we are past caring?

No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete T on December 02, 2008, 11:20:12 PM
Hit it on the nail there Tony and Dave, all we can do is offer our support (I've been doing that for 35 years now!!). It's now up to Martin and Josh, and George and Bob to sort things out. As soon as they have news, I'm sure we'll be aware of it..

On another front, after 30+ years working on a government research station, I've just handed in my notice, my shoulders suddenly feel a lot higher.. :) Technically I have to work until 2nd Jan, but have some hols left, and it's Xmas, and the Green Ray are on on the 12th.. :D Scotland soon  ;D
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on December 03, 2008, 12:01:18 AM
No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.



Spot On, Mr B.

In fact the forum has been quiet all round whilst this has been going off. I now wish I hadn't given my gut reaction to Martin's message. However...I do think there will be something positive out of this.....the force is strong in the young one.....

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Tim W on December 03, 2008, 12:06:21 AM
Does the fact this thread has lain undisturbed for a week mean that
(a) everyone's said what needed to be said or

Michael, how can it be everyone's said what needed to be said when we have yet to read the definitive account in TWC? As the subs are about due, you have a great marketing ploy here.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: John Bannon on December 03, 2008, 12:14:52 AM
Does the fact this thread has lain undisturbed for a week mean that
(a) everyone's said what needed to be said or
(b) we are past caring?

No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.
Michael, I think we've all kept a low profile in the hope the group can sort out their own problems, taking Rob the Organs advice, a few postings ago.
In total agreement with Dave it's up to the group to sort this problem out.
My personal viewpoint..... groups are like families....every family has a spat around Christmas time....don't they!
I'm sure there have been some terrible things said to each other in general or in the recording studio.
There's no situation that isn't recoverable....so's there's always hope.
For me the present lineup, seen them at Chester earlier in the year, was a call for celebration, the best I've seen Man for years, George taking over the mantle of his Dad, Josh coming more to the fore like never before, Bob pounding out on the drums like his life depended on it, Martin being the front man, MC extrodinaire and finally Phil Ryan whose keyboards add so much to Man sound.
I was really hoping this lineup would take Man into their fourtieth anniversary. Not for just us the listeners but for themselves....with the publicity...could have been beneficial for them.  

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 03, 2008, 12:28:35 AM
No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.



Spot On, Mr B.

In fact the forum has been quiet all round whilst this has been going off. I now wish I hadn't given my gut reaction to Martin's message. However...I do think there will be something positive out of this.....the force is strong in the young one.....



I don't see what all the fuss is about. We are all here because we like a band that has never managed more than two albums per line up. The Truckers line up everybody raves about didn't even last six months. There have always been new Manbands on a regular basis (aside from Micky/Deke/Martin/Pug mainstay era) and it's never been a problem... until now, it seems.

Yes, it's a bit of a bummer that the Xmas gigs weren't honoured but that's the way it is. There will be some good music from more than one source next year. Great!

It all comes down to the fact that the very nature of forums like this make everything public within an instant and we all feel we have a buy-in. Which we do to an extent: without such a loyal fanbase there is no future for Man. But there is an element of "is band politics any of our business, really?" that I have been itching to burst forth with since last week, but held my tongue for fear of being shot down.

True, I noticed that there was a considerable drop off in number of posts (often I looked in and hit the "show unread" link; there was increasingly nothing). I like to think that it was the collective fan base taking a step back and waiting to see what happens when it happens when those involved are ready to make their move.

There's a few of us on here that gig and know that while a band is what gets us tapping our feet and punching the air, there is that whole element of business or family style behind the scenes "things" that are just as entitled to have some privacy about them as what goes on in our own homes.

Let's see what happens - we might even like it when it does!!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Alan Davies on December 03, 2008, 12:39:31 AM
a) Yes....Well I've said what I needed to.
b) No.....Far from past caring, the music of Man is almost the soundtrack of my life.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 03, 2008, 01:44:49 AM
John..spot on. If you had posted that before I spouted off (or simultaneously to be exact) I would have shut up!!

Give the band some space..then enjoy each twist and turn!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Andrew P on December 03, 2008, 01:50:38 AM
I'm still reeling - George's announcement came on the day of my 52nd birthday. Nothing I can add to the comments already posted, and very eloquent they are too, nice one chaps. I've kept off the postings just to see what transpires. I think I'll be going out to see a band somewhere in Swansea on 20 December, shame it won't be Man, and I'm just waiting for Nigel to put up the gig list for December so I can make an informed choice. If the Deke Leonard gig happens on 21 December as suggested, that's a bonus. Oh, and I'll try to get to The Plough at Walthamstow for Malcolm Morley and The Green Ray next Tuesday. So all is not quite lost, just changed around a bit, and I'll probably get to see a few Man band members even if they are not playing collectively as Man.

Who was it said "may you live in interesting times"?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Jules on December 03, 2008, 09:55:01 AM
Definitely not past caring Michael but, in deference to the people who really count, I've offered little comment until a more balanced outcome is agreed between the various parties.

The rift seems to have been sparked by a combination of both inside and outside events, with loyalties tested beyond breaking point in the emotionally charged atmosphere of trying to complete the new album under awkward circumstances. These things happen. Sometimes a reconciliation is possible, and sometimes it isn't. Very little is possible without communication.

In my view, we can't have two MAN bands on the go. We can have MAN and something else (maybe A.N.Other's Manband?), but only if there's a sense of acceptance from everyone involved.

For example, I could see Martin and Josh pushing MAN forward creatively. Martin's long association and management of the band, his connections with POiNT, and with the booking agents in both of MAN's main territories suggest to me that this is the more likely outcome for the MAN brand. James is a great guitar player by the way, and they'll have no problems in sustaining a show. How much of the back-catalogue would remain in the setlist is an interesting question. For me the second song in the first live show would be a key moment. Considering of course that the first should probably be 'Visionaries' (all irony aside); will the second be a MAN classic, or a new song from the several already written for the next new album?

I can also readily see a George Jones' Manband treading the boards, and majoring on the traditional (traditional? Are we really getting that long in the tooth?) favourites that brought us to the group in the first place. George is undoubtedly a fine player and singer, and if Bob stays on board then there's no doubt about the talent on display. The unanswered question here is more about forward progression. Will there be enough song-writing talent to sustain a new album? For me there aren't enough clues on 'Diamonds and Coal' to point the way, and of course the latest recordings may not see the light of day for a considerable time.

With both these bands on the go, that would double the potential gigs that I'd be interested in seeing. Who knows, that could be ooh say 12 cancellations a year instead of the usual 6  ;)   
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on December 03, 2008, 01:26:31 PM
Not past caring. Definitely almost without words.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 03, 2008, 01:51:05 PM
In my view, we can't have two MAN bands on the go. We can have MAN and something else (maybe A.N.Other's Manband?), but only if there's a sense of acceptance from everyone involved.

Suggested names for A.N.Other:

Fire Man
Man 'o War
Mango
Manoeuvre
Manslaughter

Well - if you can't laugh...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Dan Singh on December 03, 2008, 03:31:04 PM
Suggested names for A.N.Other:

Fire Man
Man 'o War
Mango
Manoeuvre
Manslaughter

Well - if you can't laugh...

Shouldn't that be Man's laughter

No Man slander
Men 'o' pause
A man not dul

If Deke pulled the loose ends together, we could have the North Wales branch, MAN Chester re-united
If everyone got back together - Manuel

..and finally,

Our Men
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Jules on December 03, 2008, 03:41:31 PM
How about:

Man To Van, Aye (or the Yorkshire version; Man To Van, Eee)
Man Banned

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on December 03, 2008, 04:35:29 PM
Man banned - nice one!  :D

How about Man Drags, sorry, Man Drax?!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 03, 2008, 07:49:50 PM
Shouldn't that be Man's laughter

Spooky - I actually originally put it down as Man's Laughter.

Which gives us "Great  Man think alike"

How about Man-o-Pause
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete T on December 03, 2008, 07:58:00 PM
How about:

Man To Van, Aye (or the Yorkshire version; Man To Van, Eee)

..also, one for the dwarf fans..
MAN SEE KNEE!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Michael Heatley on December 03, 2008, 08:42:36 PM
 :o

I think I preferred it when we were all past caring....
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on December 03, 2008, 09:19:13 PM
Must be a sort of mass hysteria. :-\
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 03, 2008, 09:55:42 PM
Must be a sort of mass hysteria. :-\

A MANia if you will.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: John Bannon on December 03, 2008, 11:32:44 PM
I refuse to join in this thread in such serious times.....

Well that didn't last long....

MAN-ERG,

Courtesy of Van Der Graaf Generator, a track from Pawn Hearts, possibly their best track ever. A tale of one mans battle with his good side and the demon's within him.
Trying to relate this back to the Man break up, who are the good guys, who are the bad guys.
For me there's only going to be one winner..... mediocrity.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on December 03, 2008, 11:53:49 PM
If any of them are going to update the sound, then what about M-MAN-M - rap Ride and the View, anyone? And if any of them start touring, there's always MANdate. I'll get my coat (again) ...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on December 04, 2008, 12:43:30 AM
how about co-man-do?
preferably an action man one with gripping hands.....
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Dan Singh on December 04, 2008, 01:14:18 AM
"seasonal" Watery cheese in a cattle trough?
A

whey in a MANger

MAN-sun

Indian jewlery to take away
MAN-dhal-a

Late delevery for Mrs Danvers?
MAN-delay

Prince charming in the boys room..
ada-MAN-t
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 04, 2008, 02:56:32 PM
George for Man?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete T on December 04, 2008, 03:25:40 PM
George for Man?
We'd have to grill him about that..
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob Davies on December 04, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
Crikey ! Haven't been able to get on to the Board for a while, so a whopping great shock. Maybe this is good old-fashioned naivety and optimism but if the 5 guys could chat and find a way of working things through, that would be my preferred outcome, irrespective of whether they play together as a band or form umpteen new branches on the Man and off-shoots family tree. ( Have not seen the band with Phil back in harness and was hoping to get in a trip to the Christmas gig. That'll teach me not to miss gigs.)

Even if the guys decide that they can't or won't work together for the future I would hope that they can get to a position where they can still be mates, notwithstanding an agreement to disagree. They have produced way too much great music together and shown so much commitment for a falling out - no matter how heartfelt and difficult - to put a mocker on friendships that must go way back.

Seeing Martin, Josh, George and Bob play in April/May 2007 was a pleasure - and they were fairly cooking on stage, as Dave and Sally and Jules will I am sure agree - just like every Man gig I have ever attended has been a pleasure.

I'll take any combination they choose as the talent that they all share means that it will be great music. But, more important than that, I want the guys to be happy and able to share the pride and pleasure that should come from being part of one of the finest bands/musical collectives/dynasties - never sure that "band" really does the Man experience justice ! Dust settles, and phones, email and public houses will still be there as modes of and locations for communication ....

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on December 05, 2008, 01:32:46 PM
I'll take any combination they choose as the talent that they all share means that it will be great music. But, more important than that, I want the guys to be happy and able to share the pride and pleasure that should come from being part of one of the finest bands/musical collectives/dynasties...

Yep, yep and yep.

I've mentioned before that for me all parties seemed to be at their peak when Iceberg existed as well as Man in the early 70s, similarly with Alkatraz a few years later.

I'd like to know more about the others in Martin's new line up - can anyone fill me in?

Also....just musing....and thinking of Will's songwriting skills...I wonder what a combination of George/Phil/Will/Bob/Tweke would be like?

I'd buy it!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: John Bannon on December 05, 2008, 01:54:26 PM
Also....just musing....and thinking of Will's songwriting skills...I wonder what a combination of George/Phil/Will/Bob/Tweke would be like?
I'd buy it!
Now that would be a line up worth seeing....if Phil Ryan was unavailable I'm sure Clint could do a more than adequate job.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Terry on December 05, 2008, 02:43:04 PM
It would appear that one line up will be;
Martin
Josh
James Beck
Rene Robrahn

What a scoop

Terry
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 05, 2008, 05:47:48 PM
Also....just musing....and thinking of Will's songwriting skills...I wonder what a combination of George/Phil/Will/Bob/Tweke would be like?
I'd buy it!
Now that would be a line up worth seeing....if Phil Ryan was unavailable I'm sure Clint could do a more than adequate job.

I have often dreamed of a Man with Clive back in it but I don't reckon it'll happen. Clive runs his own business and needs to keep the momentum of it going.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 05, 2008, 05:50:22 PM
George for Man?
We'd have to grill him about that..

..and he'd certainly have to box clever!

Come on Nick..you surely won't resist a pun or two now that the gloves are off...oops.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on December 05, 2008, 07:45:10 PM
Come on Nick..you surely won't resist a pun or two now that the gloves are off...oops.

Oddly enough, this one's a bit too serious for me to be jocular. Oops, now I've gone all posh again. Maybe in a bit once everybody's given each other a big girly kiss. Perhaps.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 05, 2008, 07:50:22 PM
Nick,

Good point - I just hope that George Foreman doesn't read that and think you're referring to him!!!

I wouldn't hold your breath mind (well, I would if girly kisses were on the agenda, but..) as Martin at least has outlined his new band.

What will be will be - as an under 40 fan I really ought to be enjoying the upheaval as it must give me a taste of 1969-76 dynamics that I've never had.

We can at least seek solace in the fact that there will doubtlessly be some good music and possibly from more than one outlet.

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on December 05, 2008, 08:38:36 PM
Nick makes a good point about companion bands (a bit like companion planting for any gardeners out there). Man made great music when the Helps were stablemates, and again when Iceberg were around, and again when Alkatraz emerged. Maybe they need an outside voice of some sort to spar with. Maybe now, whichever band retains the Man name, the other will act as a sort of foil, like some musical version of a comedy double act.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Ceri Edwards on December 07, 2008, 01:42:37 PM
Saw Brian Breeze playing on Fiday night. Went to Derricks record shop on Saturday morning to buy a couple of Man tickets for the Christmas party - the guy just looked at me and said I dont think you'll be seeing the Manband for a long while.

Still when the dust settles who knows perhaps we will see both Men on the same bill even supporting Iceberg!!
Somebody told me that Clive john is not well and was in hospital.

Cezza :(
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Peter Steventon on December 07, 2008, 04:07:22 PM
Looks like the New Beginning has begun, on Martins site he has two Man gigs for 2009
17th June 2009 The Robin 2
19th June 2009 The District club Pontypridd
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 07, 2008, 05:54:48 PM
Somebody told me that Clive john is not well and was in hospital.

It's one thing after another. Get well soon Clive - hope it's nothing serious.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on December 07, 2008, 07:39:50 PM
Just seen this after posting on another thread about Clive John. I too hope it's nothing serious and my very best wishes. 
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on December 07, 2008, 07:56:38 PM
Regarding Pete's post about the new gigs. I see on the Robin's website the band personnel listed is the most recent band pre 'split'.  I think it means nothing that the gig is listed on Martin Ace's site as to who will own the name, 'Man'. I don't think it matters which of the re-formed bands retain the name, it's the personnel who make the band, not the name. If Take That changed their name to Man, would you suddenly buy their records and watch them?  Anyway, my own hunch is that it will be cancelled. (unless there's a reconciliation, but you know, if George and Bob can get Tweke/Will/Clive that would be the business - and they could call themselves Boyzone 2 for all I care 
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on December 08, 2008, 01:00:40 PM
Exactly, Rob, exactly.

Get well, Clive.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Jules on December 08, 2008, 02:32:37 PM
If Take That changed their name to Man, would you suddenly buy their records and watch them? 

Well they'd have to prove they could do a decent version of "Many Are Called" first.

I've never been convinced that it's the personnel who make the band Man. For me it's the music they create.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Peter Steventon on December 08, 2008, 03:14:01 PM
Rob, The dates for 2009 must have been added over the weekend as they were not on the site last Friday morning but as it says Pontypridd must be Confirmed
Pete
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 08, 2008, 09:18:16 PM
Looks like a revival of "Country Girl" is on the cards....

http://www.muziekweb.nl/shared/cat/ti/index.php?tnr=JH01058 (http://www.muziekweb.nl/shared/cat/ti/index.php?tnr=JH01058)
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Alan Davies on December 08, 2008, 09:51:48 PM
How spooky is that. As I read your post I am playing the re-release Man 1970. Romain just moved nicely into Country Girl.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 08, 2008, 10:05:50 PM
How spooky is that. As I read your post I am playing the re-release Man 1970. Romain just moved nicely into Country Girl.

Very spooky because I just did the washing-up while playing the re-release Paget...."Romain"  :o
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 09, 2008, 12:22:56 AM

Somebody told me that Clive john is not well and was in hospital.

Cezza :(


Do we know how recent this news was? Clive was hospitalised earlier in the year with a chest condition but all that was ages ago.

I did speak to Clive in Sept/Oct to pick his brains for the guitars article I wrote for TWC last issue and he seemed fine, so I'm hoping the news was a belated bulletin.

THAT SAID - I did leave a voicemail for Clint just before weekend (re: Knees Xmas gig) and have yet to hear from him - which is most unusal. Usually the phone rings with a cheery Hanover Street "How are you, you bugger?" within a day or two. So I am concerned now..

Anybody with 100% cast-iron up to the minute news, please step forward!!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 09, 2008, 12:26:55 AM
If Take That changed their name to Man, would you suddenly buy their records and watch them? 

Well they'd have to prove they could do a decent version of "Many Are Called" first.

I've never been convinced that it's the personnel who make the band Man. For me it's the music they create.

There would have to be some continuity for me - unless a posse comprised of (say) Deke, Tweke, Clive, Ken & Jeff Jones were to come along and set up shop if all other existing parties called it quits. That would be Man in my head, no problem.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Davey on December 11, 2008, 04:05:25 AM
oh...well everybody keep playing the music of course;looking forward to the next man album and concert

and more;if i don't catch up with you please don't forget to come to america together or solo; maybe new

york if you would;we'll have a good time-peace
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on December 11, 2008, 01:50:27 PM
... and love, davey.

Are your mushrooms good over there?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Pete T on December 11, 2008, 02:53:33 PM
... and love, davey.

Are your mushrooms good over there?

..at this rate, he'll soon be up to 10 posts..
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: joan on December 29, 2008, 03:00:40 AM
Sad news, I didn't know all this mess !  :o
It's hard to decide who would deserve the right to have a band called MAN:
Martin Ace, who has been in and out since 1970 and is 'almost' a founder member
or
George Jones, son of Micky, the MAN himself.

No idea...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martyn Jones on December 29, 2008, 11:19:00 AM
I think most fans think the same way lets just hopr 2009 proves a good year for Man music, see you on the road what ever the line up is
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on December 29, 2008, 02:41:21 PM
Greetings Joan

Glad you have joined this site - I have been looking at your updated TW site  http://webs.ono.com/joan_duarte/terry.html (http://webs.ono.com/joan_duarte/terry.html) - I didn't realise that there was a documentary on him ('Between Ourselves') and this is one I would like to see!

The Rockpalast and Roundhouse DVDs are now available as proper releases on Voiceprint VPDV35 and 36.

As for Man.....yes, a significant event has taken place. We think that legally Martin is entitled to use the name 'Man' and therefore George would have to call his band something else, although this is not confirmed. (Can anyone confirm the legal side?)

It would appear that musically George is more inclined towards the BGTY style than Martin. As this was arguably the most popular version of Man, this split - although painful - may ultimately enable a return towards that style.

So we're hoping that good news can come out of bad, and we're looking forward to two new albums next year! 



 
     
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: joan on December 29, 2008, 09:26:40 PM
Hi Nick Nation

That Terry documentary is very interesting but I have it in bad quality, like Jules do if I remember well.

Personally I think MAN without Micky nor Deke isn't really MAN.
Right now without Deke and Micky, Martin seems "necessary" for MAN to exist but...I think he isn't a talented musician.
So...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martyn Jones on December 29, 2008, 09:27:03 PM
I would love to know the legal side as each band is different, for example BJH are John lees BJH or BJH featuring Les Holroyd, Martin Turners WA, or just plain Wishbone Ash. So we could have Martin Ace and Man, Manband featuring George Jones and Bod Richards the list is endless!! The legal expertswill be the one's who make the money on this one as they always do.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 29, 2008, 11:35:03 PM
Martin seems "necessary" for MAN to exist but...I think he isn't a talented musician.
So...

Don't hold back, Joan, speak your mind!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 29, 2008, 11:57:49 PM
It would appear that musically George is more inclined towards the BGTY style than Martin.

Just as well, because Deke ain't coming back in a hurry. ;D

I think we're all arriving at the same crossroads now, whatever our initial thoughts and loyalties were:


I think next year will be a great year for Man-related music, not the disaster that many fear...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Davey on December 30, 2008, 06:01:16 AM
have to say i do believe martin ace is talented,surely this talent relates to music ...just curious(not

weighing in)is rightful the same as legal?...very excited to see and hear the rockapalast. thanks for the

info-stay with the music-happy new year-davey
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Gavin Crumpton on December 30, 2008, 11:08:03 AM

I think we're all arriving at the same crossroads now, whatever our initial thoughts and loyalties were:


Couldnt disagree more. Most people I've spoken to about this do not think Martin is the person to carry the Man name forward and it is clear that he has lost the goodwill of a lot of people close to the band and of a lot of the fans too.

In George and Martin's statements they have both said they intend to continue as Man. It is far from certain what will happen with the name but the legal right to the name will not just rest on Martin having been in the band longer.

This has still got some way to run before it will be clear who if anyone will use the Man name so I'm not sure any of us are in a position at the moment to prejudge the outcome of all this and what will happen in 2009.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Tim W on December 30, 2008, 01:07:11 PM
All this obsessing over who gets to use the Man name seems rather irrelevant to me. Isn't it the muisic that matters? Whatever label you choose to put on the tin, it's the contents that really matter.

To put the argument to bed, maybe neither side should take the name on, and just let it rest in peace. If anyone is looking for a new name, I can't help thinking the New Bystanders has a nice ring to it.

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: merc on December 30, 2008, 01:24:08 PM
How about the Drive-By Standers?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on December 30, 2008, 02:31:07 PM
In the circumstances, how about 'Half Man Half Biscuit'?

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Ring on December 30, 2008, 03:45:23 PM
  Well said, Gav.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on December 30, 2008, 04:37:03 PM
Well said all of us! It would be a shame if a divided band divided us fans as well.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 30, 2008, 07:07:58 PM

To put the argument to bed, maybe neither side should take the name on, and just let it rest in peace.

Quite. Well, that's what almost all of my mates that like Man but don't post here have said. True, they also said it after Micky retired but a couple of them did have the decency to come out this year in the spirit of the 40th Anniversary and see the Martin/Phil/George band and did enjoy it. But they are saying it again now, and I have to admit there is scant argument against them. It might be the best solution, and enable all to just get on with their music and entertain us.

My wife says it too :o, so there is no point in me arguing about it. Not at home anyway. ;D

In the circumstances, how about 'Half Man Half Biscuit'?
This would open the set nicely:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfW-uhp_JB8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfW-uhp_JB8&feature=related)

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Michael Heatley on December 30, 2008, 11:40:06 PM
I haven't seen teeth like that since Jaws, Rob!

BTW what was that bass he was toting?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Ron S on December 31, 2008, 01:46:44 AM
I haven't seen teeth like that since Jaws, Rob!

BTW what was that bass he was toting?

It's a Gretsch, it's also seen on the Jesus Of Cool cover...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on December 31, 2008, 02:03:16 AM
I haven't seen teeth like that since Jaws, Rob!


In the Brinsleys he was overshadowed by Bob Andrews who had a fine set.

Best "hanging them out to dry" and just winner of the "eating a Cox's through a Slazenger" trophy has to be Robin Trower's cover portrait on the Live album.

That said, the late Bob Grant of On The Buses will forever be the champion, RIP.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Michael Heatley on December 31, 2008, 04:31:22 PM
Thanks Ron - but that doesn't narrow it down that much, does it?  ;D
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on December 31, 2008, 05:59:04 PM
All this obsessing over who gets to use the Man name seems rather irrelevant to me. Isn't it the muisic that matters? Whatever label you choose to put on the tin, it's the contents that really matter.

Absolutely. The point was made quite a few posts ago.

Anyway, I'm going to dream the New Year in with:-

George, Bob, Tweke, Will and Clive








Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Ron S on December 31, 2008, 06:03:40 PM
Thanks Ron - but that doesn't narrow it down that much, does it?  ;D

I'm sure there is a database of gretsch guitars somewhere... It was just a clue to send you off on a quest.. nice guitar innit?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on December 31, 2008, 06:37:56 PM
Anyway, I'm going to dream the New Year in with:-

George, Bob, Tweke, Will and Clive

My, what a big bed you must have...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Michael Heatley on December 31, 2008, 07:39:23 PM
Ron - I jest because he had a lot of basses in a lot of pictures on that album! I did appreciate the original answer.  ;D

In fact I bought the reissue which, amusingly, folds out into a crucifix shape (Jesus Of Cool).

Tonight I am playing at a party - setlist includes 'Almost Saturday Night'...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Ron S on December 31, 2008, 07:56:00 PM
Ron - I jest because he had a lot of basses in a lot of pictures on that album! I did appreciate the original answer.  ;D

In fact I bought the reissue which, amusingly, folds out into a crucifix shape (Jesus Of Cool).

Tonight I am playing at a party - setlist includes 'Almost Saturday Night'...

right, great album too. the reissue was done right.. now we need Labour Of Lust.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 01, 2009, 12:43:58 PM
Anyway, I'm going to dream the New Year in with:- George, Bob, Tweke, Will and Clive

You know Rob, I think I have the answer. And it's a pretty sensible one this time. No, really. I'm just wondering if Jules, with his computer knowledge, could create a Manband computer programme holding all the musical data of each member to enable us to create these fantasy line-ups......you could fade the guitarists of your choice in and out of the mix, adjust drumming from TW (crisp rolls) through BR (tight, soild) to JW (more thump) with a bit of Ray Martinez (tentative in places due to unfamiliarity)....similarly adjust bass from MA (solid thump) through WY (less thump but with more melody) controversially through KW (never quite gelled despite being great) to JM (fretless fills)....a special Dave Edmunds plug-in for the encores.....Oh I could go on.

And Happy New Year to you all....and especially to George and Martin. Best of luck to you both - I always like to think that ultimately music is the winner.
 

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on January 01, 2009, 04:07:18 PM
Anyway, I'm going to dream the New Year in with:- George, Bob, Tweke, Will and Clive

You know Rob, I think I have the answer. And it's a pretty sensible one this time. No, really. I'm just wondering if Jules, with his computer knowledge, could create a Manband computer programme holding all the musical data of each member to enable us to create these fantasy line-ups......you could fade the guitarists of your choice in and out of the mix, adjust drumming from TW (crisp rolls) through BR (tight, soild) to JW (more thump) with a bit of Ray Martinez (tentative in places due to unfamiliarity)....similarly adjust bass from MA (solid thump) through WY (less thump but with more melody) controversially through KW (never quite gelled despite being great) to JM (fretless fills)....a special Dave Edmunds plug-in for the encores.....Oh I could go on.

Quite right, Nick. In fact the programme can be based on the Football Manager/FIFA type things with identical looking personnel playing live on stage, and we control the output. We also manage the band, arrange gigs, sort out the contracts, make albums, the list is endless. Come on webmeister, what have you been doing all these years other than modelling ill fitting codpieces. Bloody Rubbish Jules....Gough Out!!

(We could also drive the tour bus Mercedes van, and have Martin Daughton singing songs about Revels and Maltesers non stop from South Wales to the Renfrew piggin' Ferry wherever that may be these days)   
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 01, 2009, 05:08:11 PM
Yes.

With output to DVD. We could all make and record our own virtual reality Man gigs. Apparently there's a new John Cippolina plug in with adjustable ear-splitting treble and untuneability ratio. I always thought cod was bigger.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on January 01, 2009, 05:41:51 PM
Yes.

With output to DVD. We could all make and record our own virtual reality Man gigs. Apparently there's a new John Cippolina plug in with adjustable ear-splitting treble and untuneability ratio. I always thought cod was bigger.

..and a Morley plug-in that transforms the utility for a while then causes complete meltdown!!!

A Ray/Jeff plug in could be developed that restricts the virtual gig from portraying anything other than a short and structured song.

Presumably there would be a minimum requirement of Vista if you wish to run the brass Wurlitzer horns VST?

If the product took more of a game-type route rather than just a virtual gig you could introduce some baddies like Romain, another copper who is confused and thinks everbody is in liege with Baader Meinhof and a sleuth-like Pye Records executive who tries to make the band honour the rest of the contract. "Treasures" to find would be cabbages to eat when pissed, sundry Nepalese Temple Balls and Micky's missing red Gibson ES-335/Deke's original Tele.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on January 01, 2009, 06:10:53 PM
Don't waste your time Jules, just create an applet that automatically sorts these meandering threads into appropriately headed sub-threads and hypnotises some of the wackier contributors and sends them off for a lie down.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on January 01, 2009, 06:12:15 PM
(We could also drive the tour bus Mercedes van, and have Martin Daughton singing songs about Revels and Maltesers non stop from South Wales to the Renfrew piggin' Ferry wherever that may be these days)   

Are there any songs about Maltesers?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike M on January 01, 2009, 06:56:22 PM
I went to Malta once.   Don't recall much about their confectionary but there were lots of dogs, dust and Popeye stuff. And a dead fish chucked away near the hotel.  Bit like the one on the SM cover.  Now that's interesting.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on January 01, 2009, 07:34:23 PM
Are there any songs about Maltesers?

Actually, I'd have that bird from the flake advert. And was it a Magnum advert (the ice cream not the car) who was having the ice cream all seductively like, and bits of ice cream were dribbling down the side of her mouth. Could put that on the reality Man gig whilst the band play Erotica in the background....
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike M on January 01, 2009, 07:44:18 PM
Didn't the one that was in the flake 'bath' advert go on to sharing intimacies with Roger taylor off of Queen?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on January 01, 2009, 08:54:02 PM
We're not having Roger Taylor in the Man Reality band. He can bog off. 10 of him wouldn't make a Bob Richards.

And to kep the pressure on. or maybe to annoy everyone in which case I apologise, George, Bob, Tweke, Will and hopefully Clive. Reality becomes fact.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Andrew P on January 02, 2009, 02:28:16 AM
Maltesers? We're missing the obvious here.

"I like to eat Maltesers
'cause they've got no bones"

I'll get me coat...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on January 02, 2009, 02:35:21 AM
Are there any songs about Maltesers?

Actually, I'd have that bird from the flake advert. And was it a Magnum advert (the ice cream not the car) who was having the ice cream all seductively like, and bits of ice cream were dribbling down the side of her mouth. Could put that on the reality Man gig whilst the band play Erotica in the background....

..with the voice of the Caramel bunny tracked over the top of Erotica!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 02, 2009, 01:22:13 PM
And to kep the pressure on. or maybe to annoy everyone in which case I apologise, George, Bob, Tweke, Will and hopefully Clive. Reality becomes fact.

Well it's a nice idea, Rob....but in the real world even I realise that with Clive and Tweke both being gainfully employed elsewhere they are unlikely to drop that in favour of a comeback gig in front of 20 people in Workington. Not sure about Will. It would be different if the band was regularly gigging and earning....until then, we might have to brace ourselves for the possibilty of new, maybe younger musicians who have similar attributes being added to the Man Family Jungle. That's ok, isn't it?  (yes)

Trouble is, these will be hard to find in this day and age of two-dimensional music (ouch). Fear not, however, I've got a cunning plan. (George and Bob now visibly twitching as the last thing they really need right now is some opinionated smart arse like me who doesn't really know the full story spouting off, not that it's ever stopped me before....)     

I suggest we compile a list of questions for these raw recruits to enable G & B to make their executive decision. How about:

1. Touring. Translate the following: 'Ou est les banane des Clint?' 'Avez vous des Rizlas?'
2. You have style, touch and expressive ability. Are you nevertheless prepared to wear a black beret with red dungarees on stage?
3. Keyboard Players: Are you prepared to be heard in the front-of-house mix? (ouch ouch ouch)
4. How long should a 4 minute song last?

....and even....

5. Do you have feel, technique, control and can improvise at the drop of a hat?


Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 02, 2009, 04:41:48 PM
6. Translate: 'Soy la Man tambor. Que es Jazz?'
 
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: joan on January 02, 2009, 05:17:54 PM
6. Translate: 'Soy la Man tambor. Que es Jazz?'
well, this is easy for me, I suppose it means:
"I am the drummer. What is jazz?"
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 02, 2009, 05:34:46 PM
7. 'Ho! Arriva! Dino Valente burro spalmato! I theenk!'
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Michael Heatley on January 02, 2009, 07:11:11 PM
Que?  ???
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on January 03, 2009, 10:11:34 PM
Que?  ???

Oh, don't encourage him, Michael.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: ACE on January 07, 2009, 07:41:24 PM
MAN tour dates added on Martin Ace's hompage for April / May 2009
 

http://www.martinace.de
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on January 08, 2009, 11:22:21 AM
MAN tour dates added on Martin Ace's hompage for April / May 2009

I don't want to rake over the coals but, given Martin's domicile and the location of the gigs, he could call the band MANN
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Campbell on January 08, 2009, 11:50:01 AM
Morning all,I clicked on the homepage of Mr Ace's sight but its not working for me.
So does this mean its Martin who will be using the Man name?If so who will be playing with him?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on January 08, 2009, 12:01:03 PM
I find it bizarre that gigs are announced for 'Man' in 2009, yet there appears to be no mention of who will be in the band, if indeed there is one.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 08, 2009, 12:11:55 PM
MAN tour dates added on Martin Ace's hompage for April / May 2009
 

I've been trying to find out more...songs, players, anything.....we know Martin and Josh, but not the others.

James has played with Josh in two bands - Ringolevio who can be heard here http://www.myspace.com/ringoleviomusic (http://www.myspace.com/ringoleviomusic) as as previously mentioned with Omigosh (with Martin) who can be heard here http://www.myspace.com/omigoshtheband  (http://www.myspace.com/omigoshtheband). As Jules has already pointed out, James is good....I presume Rene is one of Martin's contacts, but I haven't been able to find out what he sounds like, or who he has played with.

If anybody can expand on this, then please do so.







 

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Tim W on January 08, 2009, 12:54:54 PM
Rene Robrahn has played with Bobby Byrd and others from a soul/funk background.

Whether http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Splcg8dB09k (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Splcg8dB09k) is typical, we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Colin Salter on January 08, 2009, 01:25:30 PM
Hell, that YouTube clip is a bit cheesey!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 08, 2009, 02:59:52 PM
Rene Robrahn has played with Bobby Byrd and others from a soul/funk background.

Thanks Tim, from this bit of info I've now been able to find quite a few references to him.....obviously capable, and more experienced than Josh/James...


Whether http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Splcg8dB09k (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Splcg8dB09k) is typical, we'll have to wait and see.

Hell, that YouTube clip is a bit cheesey!

Hmm, but useful...let's say Rene also demonstrates desirable qualities such as flexibility and adaptability!


Based on these few examples I would say that Martin has assembled a line up who are clearly capable, are experienced live, are comfortable being recorded (or as comfortable as you'll ever be in the circumstances), can write songs, are multi-instrumental (Josh plays drums in omigosh, james plays bass in ringowotsit) and have a quirky element in James. And Martin!

Putting aside the issues that have led to the formation of this band - I'm looking forward to hearing them.

     


 



Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on January 08, 2009, 09:46:34 PM
Rene Robrahn has played with Bobby Byrd and others from a soul/funk background.

Whether http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Splcg8dB09k (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Splcg8dB09k) is typical, we'll have to wait and see.

A jazzer - maybe the drums within Man will be back to a sensible volume like Terry could manage. Hurrah!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on January 08, 2009, 10:17:46 PM
So can someone confirm please. Rene and James (feel like I know them so well) - are they confirmed members of 'Man' or not?

Thanks

Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on January 08, 2009, 10:20:31 PM
That was certainly the line-up that Martin spoke of on the phone just before Christmas, which was after his post here. I'd say yes until confirmed otherwise!!!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Jules on January 09, 2009, 03:05:53 AM
Me and Josh Ace will continue with Rene Robrahn on drums and James Beck on guitar as MAN.
The new album, produced by Phil, won't come out for the upcoming tours of Britain and Germany. We will record another one in January with the new line up.
                                                                    Best wishes to you all,
                                                                                                 Martin Ace

Just to remind everyone.

Martin's been very consistent about this, so no reason to speculate otherwise.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob W on January 09, 2009, 04:01:55 PM
Me and Josh Ace will continue with Rene Robrahn on drums and James Beck on guitar as MAN.
The new album, produced by Phil, won't come out for the upcoming tours of Britain and Germany. We will record another one in January with the new line up.
                                                                    Best wishes to you all,
                                                                                                 Martin Ace

Just to remind everyone.

Martin's been very consistent about this, so no reason to speculate otherwise.

Either I'd forgotten or just missed that post confirming the line up, so my apologies for the tone of my posts.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 10, 2009, 01:44:58 PM
A jazzer - maybe the drums within Man will be back to a sensible volume like Terry could manage. Hurrah!

....steady, Rob....look what happened to Pugwash - all those years playing with Gentle Giant then forming a rhythm section with MA - it'll bring out the animal in him! (although maybe not the twitching, arf arf arf Pugwash joke)

But point taken - TW did display a welcome sense of dynamics during the golden era, although I still maintain this diminished.

I'd definitely have the bass drum on my Virtual Man Programme set to Pugwash, however.


Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: joan on January 10, 2009, 04:09:19 PM
My favourite is Terry Williams but it's obvious (for me at least) Bob Richards is the best
(more talented) drummer Man have ever had.
Then I like Jeff Jones, he had a peculiar style and did lots of interesting things.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on January 10, 2009, 05:49:08 PM
none of the drummers ever had enough cymbals, there are never enough cymbals...
Interesting re the virtual Man bass drum setting set to Pugwash, as Pugwash did try to buy a bass drum pedal off me once i explained mine was a left footed one, and therefore no good to him. if he'd been after cymbals he may have had more luck...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on January 10, 2009, 06:49:09 PM
none of the drummers ever had enough cymbals, there are never enough cymbals...

They've all gone to dinner.

Interesting re the virtual Man bass drum setting set to Pugwash, as Pugwash did try to buy a bass drum pedal off me once i explained mine was a left footed one, and therefore no good to him. if he'd been after cymbals he may have had more luck...

I bought a left-hand plectrum today.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on January 10, 2009, 07:02:30 PM



I bought a left-hand plectrum today.

Ah, but does that work for a right handed guitarist who plays left handed though?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Davey on January 10, 2009, 08:04:41 PM
i play righty but even with a guitar in my hand i play air guitar lefty,makes me wonder what

could have been, not too much though;everything is more than fine -peace-davey
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on January 10, 2009, 08:54:22 PM
Ah, but does that work for a right handed guitarist who plays left handed though?

Is that with a left-handed guitar strung with right-handed strings or a right-handed guitar strung with left-handed strings?
Upside down??
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on January 10, 2009, 10:53:43 PM
well, i was thinking more of playing with teeth. Behind the back.....
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Jules on January 11, 2009, 03:15:19 AM
It's very hard getting left-handed strings these days. Even rarer than flat-wound bass strings. Most shops just pass off right-handed strings as left-handed, but if you check closely you can see the bottom three are wound the wrong way, and the top three have the ferrules on the wrong end.

That's not so bad for the top three on a Floyd-Rose trem, 'cause you chop the ferrules off anyway, but for the bottom three I often find I'm confusing my upstroke with my down stroke. I have discovered though that using a right-handed plectrum turned back to front compensates for this nicely.

Of course when picking, the plectrum trick's no good.

Really fast picking makes my nose bleed. 
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on January 11, 2009, 12:09:37 PM
Arf, arf, arf (WHO SAID THAT???)  ;D
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on January 11, 2009, 12:20:13 PM
apparently there is new medication availaible for that floyd rose trem of yours mr Gough, it doesnt now have the stigma it once did.
never tried picking my nose with a plectrum.

It seems the manbandforum is getting a bit silly these days.





I like it.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Alan Davies on January 11, 2009, 01:17:10 PM
Flat wound bass stings are easy unless you play a 5 string. Left handed flat wound 5 sets must be impossible. Never seen a left handed capo either.
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 11, 2009, 03:01:00 PM
Arf, arf, arf (WHO SAID THAT???)  ;D

I think you just did, Mikes....every individual one of you....it's very effective in 5:1, it's like you're surrounded!

Hope this helps. 
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on January 11, 2009, 03:17:39 PM
I am having trouble finding piano wound strings (left or right handed) for my acoustics (right handed) and I'm getting bored stealing them from concert grands (right handed) and lopping off several feet with a pair of snips (right handed).
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: mikes on January 11, 2009, 09:11:26 PM
Thanks, Nick, from all of us.

Just wondered what ten arms and hands and legs and feet could do together ... form a band!
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 11, 2009, 09:54:07 PM
Thanks, Nick, from all of us.

Just wondered what ten arms and hands and legs and feet could do together ... form a band!

Ahh Your Mighty Pluralness...as a single entity I can only be jealous. You could complete George and Bob's new line up - at a stroke!

Errm....I wonder how they're getting on? Hope they're ok...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Jules on January 11, 2009, 10:23:47 PM
Arf, arf, arf (WHO SAID THAT???)  ;D

Well it couldn't have been Evelyn, because she only said "Arf",
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Martin Daughton on January 12, 2009, 05:30:07 PM
Just wondered what ten arms and hands and legs and feet could do together ... form a band!

Like Heads Hands and Feet?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 12, 2009, 05:39:58 PM
Like Heads Hands and Feet?

Ha!

'Shake Shake that fine tambourine, whoa woman, you murder me'. Snigger!

Good though. Another Man cover version?
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Nick Nation on January 12, 2009, 09:52:16 PM

Well it couldn't have been Evelyn, because she only said "Arf",

Very warm, Mr Jules. And true. But then she was modified. Try Fido....
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Mike Burgess on January 12, 2009, 11:40:51 PM
Its just a steaming pile of frunobulax...
Title: Re: A NEW BEGINNING......
Post by: Rob the Organ on January 16, 2009, 11:31:49 PM
A jazzer - maybe the drums within Man will be back to a sensible volume like Terry could manage. Hurrah!

....steady, Rob....look what happened to Pugwash - all those years playing with Gentle Giant then forming a rhythm section with MA - it'll bring out the animal in him! (although maybe not the twitching, arf arf arf Pugwash joke)

But point taken - TW did display a welcome sense of dynamics during the golden era, although I still maintain this diminished.

I'd definitely have the bass drum on my Virtual Man Programme set to Pugwash, however.


If you set it as such, will there be a constant whooshing or whistling sound between songs and even when the application is not running to give the user Virtual Tinnitus like Pugwash gave my mate JG back on "Saturday 14th" in 1983? JG's being sadly not Virtual.....



Ha!

'Shake Shake that fine tambourine, whoa woman, you murder me'. Snigger!

Good though. Another Man cover version?

I thought it was "you're mighty mean".....?