The Manband Forum

General Category => Live Reviews - with spoilers => Topic started by: Allan Heron on October 12, 2009, 10:56:59 AM

Title: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 12, 2009, 10:56:59 AM
I'll wrote more about this later, but just to say that last night was an extremely enjoyable gig which confirmed the reports coming out in the past couple of weeks.   Setlist as before, but minus Romain (which, to be honest, was no great loss to me).

For all the comments made, the venue was a delightful place and one I'd gladly go back to albeit that driving there in the dark had me convinced I was deep in vampire territory!!   And also a part of the country with no phone signal to speak of.   Although more expensive than the equivalent would be in the city, it's got a lovely ambience and makes for a wonderfully intimate experience with the performer.  I hadn't taken a camera and rather regretted not being able to take photos of the place, and the music room (which had a load of marvellous music memorabilia around the walls - much of it signed)

Attendance was just around the 20 mark which made the room about 2/3rds full!!   Given the location I really had no idea what the turnout would be like but was pleasantly surprised at this given some of the previous attendances, and the location of the venue.  
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Jules on October 12, 2009, 11:05:37 AM
Delighted that you made it there and back in one piece. Have you checked your neck for twin puncture marks?
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 12, 2009, 11:16:56 AM
Delighted that you made it there and back in one piece. Have you checked your neck for twin puncture marks?

I must confess that I did make a joke at your expense when speaking to the band afterwards.   Phil mentioned that you were one of the stout supporters of the band - I did suggest that the adjective might have been more sensitively chosen  ::)

I, of course, continue to be a prime example of fitness and health  :D
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 12, 2009, 11:30:25 AM
When the gig was announced, looking at the venue's website, it did seem a lovely place and one which usually I would have gone and stayed the weekend.

And yes last time I saw you, Allan, most definitely a picture of fitness and health. But have you seen the extremely gentlemanly looking Martin Daughton esquire? Must be something good in the air?   

(Allan - off topic but in dec there's an Alex Harvey convention of sorts at the dreaded Ferry. Will you be there? )
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Nick Nation on October 12, 2009, 11:39:41 AM
Your dedication is to be admired, Mr H!

I, of course, continue to be a prime example of fitness and health  :D

Ahh, those were the days....mind you, as I'm now up to 72 kg I'd fancy my chances against a poodle, even an angry one...

But have you seen the extremely gentlemanly looking Martin Daughton esquire?

Think we'd better leave Mr Daughton's gentleman out of this....
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 12, 2009, 11:57:31 AM
(Allan - off topic but in dec there's an Alex Harvey convention of sorts at the dreaded Ferry. Will you be there? )

Not sure that's anything other than a gig come Christmas Party by Chris Glen's band with some guests (notably Max Maxwell) rather than a Harvey convention.   But, no, I won't be there.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 12, 2009, 12:15:18 PM
(Allan - off topic but in dec there's an Alex Harvey convention of sorts at the dreaded Ferry. Will you be there? )

Not sure that's anything other than a gig come Christmas Party by Chris Glen's band with some guests (notably Max Maxwell) rather than a Harvey convention.   But, no, I won't be there.

That's as I see it, which is why I stated 'of sorts'. Not worth it is it...I'm going through one of my Alex Harvey stages at the moment.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 12, 2009, 12:18:29 PM
Set List

The Price
Mad on Her
C?mon
Speak
Russian Roulette
Spunk Rock
Dream Away
Steal the World
The Man with X-Ray Eyes
Many are Called but Few Get Up

Bananas
Do It

This was the first time I?d seen the band with neither Micky nor Deke in the line-up; the first time I?d seen Phil Ryan in the band since the first time I EVER saw the band, back on the Up for the Day tour; the first time the band had played Scotland since (Allan, help me out here!) ? too damn long anyway. So I?m not really qualified to comment here on comparisons with more recent line-ups.

The set list concentrates noticeably on material from after 1990. That?s not surprising given that most of Martin Ace?s recorded output with the band dates from then. What WAS surprising was the strength of the less frequently played choices, especially the opening pair of songs as played by the new band. They seemed to be a manifesto for the evening, demonstrating a willingness by the new line-up to revisit back catalogue with fresh ears. The band are choosing songs that work for the current line-up, not any former dream team.

In the case of obligatory classics such as C?mon and Spunk Rock they have gone back to the songs? simpler studio versions, stripping out the inspirational innovations and developments of Micky and Deke and thereby creating space for inspirational innovations of their own. I felt like I was watching a young band with a great future, to be honest. As you?d expect of a young band, they are still feeling their way into the material, none of which is yet entirely of their own making. But I don?t think anyone doubts now that they have the talent, and the coherence as a band, to make their own useful mark on it all.

The vocal arrangements are particularly strong now, better than they?ve been the last few times I?ve seen the band, when inevitably Micky?s and Deke?s voices had lost much of their power. I long to see Josh come forward and do more PERFORMING as opposed to playing and singing; he revealed a genuinely strong and interesting singing voice when he took the lead vocal on Speak, the best of the new songs played at Lathones.

The line-up may be young, but of course not all the members of it are; the most lively performers of the night were Martin and Phil. Martin was as ever striking poses left right and centre and leading from the front; and the energy that Phil put into his playing, rising at times from his seat as if lifted by the higher power of the music, was exciting to watch. The current version of Do It, faster than I?ve heard it and with thrilling solos and vocals from Phil, was the highlight of the evening for me. And like Mr Heron I didn?t miss Romain at all.

The sound for the gig was okay. In such a small venue, only the vocals went through the PA, with everything else unmixed, just back line, and the kit unmiked. This meant that certain ranges and settings for keyboards and guitars got lost sometimes behind the acoustic brightness of the drums.

As for the venue: Lathones IS the Inn at Lathones, and maybe two other houses. Deep in the heart of Fife along tortuously curving rural roads, it?s hardly a centre of population. It wasn?t the thinnest audience on the tour, but at ?24 a ticket and 90 minutes? drive from Edinburgh, even more from Glasgow, it was never going to reunite the Scottish faithful in a massive end of tour party. But it has atmosphere and intimacy; and if the audiences go up and the prices come down, it could well become one of those special places.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 12, 2009, 12:24:48 PM
the first time the band had played Scotland since (Allan, help me out here!) ? too damn long anyway.

The band were at The Renfrew Ferry on 25th September 2004.......

.....Rob W was there on the 26th  ::) :D
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 12, 2009, 12:37:37 PM
the first time the band had played Scotland since (Allan, help me out here!) ? too damn long anyway.

The band were at The Renfrew Ferry on 25th September 2004.......

.....Rob W was there on the 26th  ::) :D

Allan, I think you are one of the few posters to whom nobody has said f*ck off. So, I hope you won't feel offended but.....

f*ck off Heron

:) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 12, 2009, 12:39:26 PM
Allan, I think you are one of the few posters to whom nobody has said f*ck off. So, I hope you won't feel offended but.....

f*ck off Heron

:) :) :) :)

Glad to be part of the UFO Club  :D

To think that's five years I've been ribbing you about your tourist expedition  :o
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Nick Nation on October 12, 2009, 02:10:12 PM
Looking back over the reviews of this recent tour, credit is due to the band for putting on sterling performances throughout and to JB and RR for fitting in so well. Credit also due to the Forum Members who put up their reviews so soon after the event and for covering every single gig played! Over time I hope to be able to give you all a big kiss as opportunity allows. In the meantime - thanks from the rest of us!  :-*

Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Nick Nation on October 12, 2009, 02:35:23 PM
...covering every single gig played!

...whoops, except Wrexham. Maybe I won't have to kiss you all now.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Jules on October 12, 2009, 03:04:23 PM
"one of the stout supporters of the band - I did suggest that the adjective might have been more sensitively chosen  ::)"

More bitter than stout, although driving duties these days mean I'm usually off my Brains on Coke.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Jules on October 12, 2009, 03:07:19 PM
I felt like I was watching a young band with a great future, to be honest.
Nail on head.

I know it's 2009 and not 1970, but the sense of adventure and promise certainly feels the same.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: raygun on October 12, 2009, 05:53:53 PM
Photographs of this gig on flick r look for Manband or Lathones
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Davey on October 12, 2009, 08:16:27 PM
thanks for the review...that's the one i wanted to go to!-peace...
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Mark Davies on October 12, 2009, 08:31:31 PM
Photographs of this gig on flick r look for Manband or Lathones

I see pics when I search for manband & lathones, but none of our boys. Am I doing something wrong? Just thick? Please advise....
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: AlanK on October 12, 2009, 09:44:58 PM
Twenty four hours later and I'm still smiling.

I went to Lathones last night hopeful that recent reviews had not just been posted by nostalgic fans looking at the band through rose tinted spectacles. However, I was really impressed with the performance the lads put on. 

From the first bars of The Price to the final notes of Conflict of Interest the band played with attack, cohesion and no little creativity. The song mix gave a great balance of material though the decades and everyone seemed on top form and up for the occasion.  Phil played with terrific enthusiasm  -and skill, of course, James produced  some great guitar work, Martin & Josh sang their hearts out and along with Ren? kept the whole thing tight and together.

The venue was a real find. To be seated in the front row, just a few feet from the guys was fantastic and I just hope that the band manage a trip back up to Scotland in the not too distant future. The last time I'd seen them was in Turriff, of all places, in 1994, so hopefully the next gig won't be 15 years hence!

Go and see this version of Man. You definitely won?t regret it



Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 12, 2009, 10:49:38 PM
Hello and welcome, AlanK. Sorry we didn't meet and get to chat last night - I was a couple of rows behind you. Good, wasn't it!
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 13, 2009, 01:12:10 AM
http://itsjustmyview.blogspot.com/2009/10/concert-review-man-inn-at-lathones.html (http://itsjustmyview.blogspot.com/2009/10/concert-review-man-inn-at-lathones.html)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: lloydie on October 13, 2009, 10:00:02 AM
Nice to see the tour ending on a high note with lots of positive comments.Roll on next tour etc :)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Mark Davies on October 13, 2009, 11:45:23 AM
Photographs of this gig on flick r look for Manband or Lathones

I see pics when I search for manband & lathones, but none of our boys. Am I doing something wrong? Just thick? Please advise....

OK, I see them today -some sort of timing thing no doubt. Good stuff! Thanks.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Mark Davies on October 13, 2009, 11:47:00 AM
Photographs of this gig on flick r look for Manband or Lathones

I see pics when I search for manband & lathones, but none of our boys. Am I doing something wrong? Just thick? Please advise....

OK, I see them today -some sort of timing thing no doubt. Good stuff! Thanks.

This takes you straight to them: http://www.flickr.com/photos/43467638@N07/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/43467638@N07/)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: George Jones on October 13, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
I just read this...............?

The vocal arrangements are particularly strong now, better than they?ve been the last few times I?ve seen the band, when inevitably Micky?s and Deke?s voices had lost much of their power.

That's a matter of opinion.

Don't mean to come across as bitter, but leave my Dad out of it.  In his last days with the band he played and sung as good as I've ever seen.  I've been....and played at a lot of MAN gigs.

I think that comment is uncalled for....your opinion, but uncalled for.

The manband will never see his like again, and that breaks my heart.

Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 13, 2009, 03:11:27 PM
This is difficult because I think my opinions are well known, even though privately, they are even stronger than I have intimated on this board. But, I don't shy away, and I hope George does not mind me saying, whereas I understand his feelings, surely this was Allan giving a personal opinion which some may agree with, others may not, hence permissable in a review.

I think Allan's choice of word "inevitably" is the key word. Quite simply a case of age. I'm sure Deke would accept he couldn't sing eg Romain in the 80's/90's with the same growl as he did in the 70's,  and MJ would accept that he couldn't hit the high notes in eg C'mon in the 80's'90's as he did in the 70's. Ironically, in my opinion, I feel though MJ's singing did improve post 80's, I loved it.

I also think we all know, Allan usually speaks the most sense and will look at things absolutely impartially, which incidentally, is why he's such a complete and utter b*st*rd. :)

Maybe Allan had no need to mention Deke or MJ at all? Possibly, but whatever our individual views, this band is still Man, and it is fair to make a comparison.

I would though say from a personal point of view, I'm not happy with references to GJ and Bob having been "ejected" from the band. Very emotional and sort of gives credence to the actions of Martin Ace.

Although I now have absolutely no interest in Man whilst Martin Ace is with the band (or until, hopefully, but doubtfully, differences could be settled - stranger things have happened), I would always welcome reading or listening to Allan's views.

     
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Peter Steventon on October 13, 2009, 03:20:45 PM
Think you will find Rob it wasnt Allan who said it.   
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 13, 2009, 03:41:47 PM
Think you will find Rob it wasnt Allan who said it.    
..but I am a complete and utter b*st*rd  :D

I did use the "e" word though, which I thought was a more accurate description than to suggest it was merely due to the stereotypical "musical differences"
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 13, 2009, 03:43:32 PM
Think you will find Rob it wasnt Allan who said it.   

That's what comes of trying to do a million things at once. Yes, it was oric who mentioned the Deke/MJ bit, but I still stand by what I put in the post.

Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 13, 2009, 03:54:59 PM
Yes, the remarks about the vocals are from my review, not Allan's. I meant no offence to anyone, and it goes without saying that the Manband will never see the like of Micky and Deke again. But I stand by my opinion that the last few times I saw the band, in the early 2000s, the range, power and pitch of the vocals had suffered from the simple ravages of time and age (and also I think perhaps from the gigs being too damn loud in small spaces).

It's a different matter being in the studio, and the depth and maturity of the vocals on Endangered Species are as magnificent in their own way as Micky's spine-tingling falsetto on Back Into the Future's C'mon or the younger Deke's savage growls on his early solo albums.

There certainly was no suggestion in my review that Micky's PLAYING was in any way diminished towards the end of his time with the band, and as far as I'm concerned the reverse is true: he was exploring astonishing new areas in his improvisation, and playing better than ever. No question.

We need to get to a point here where we can all stop being so damn sensitive about everything. There's not a reader or contributor to this board who thinks Micky Jones was anything other than a heaven-sent angel of the voice and guitar, without whom the Manband would simply not exist. We all miss him terribly and cherish the memory of his playing and singing. That doesn't mean, I hope, that we can't either discuss his work or listen to other singers and guitarists and enjoy their contributions.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Michael Heatley on October 13, 2009, 04:18:11 PM
This board is all about opinions, and I think if that applies at all it applies across the board, if you know what I mean.

I know Micky's not able to answer his critics, but we're not his critics - we're his friends.  ;D

C'mon folks...

Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: George Jones on October 13, 2009, 04:27:07 PM
I would hate to think that I would be putting a stop to anyone, having an opinion or discussing other players or singers.  But don't forget, im the one who visits dad every week, the last time I was able to have a proper conversation with him was 3 years ago,  so pardon me if I feel a bit sensitive about things.  It hasn't been an easy time for Dad or me.  I had no choice in how the band has turned out.  That decision was made for me.

But looking back, it was not meant to be.  And im looking forward to new projects, the new album is cooking and Im enjoying the freedom that is coming with it, especially in the songwriting department.

Like I said before, my dad is unaware of the split, he only gets positive news......and that's the way it will stay.

I, more than anyone am in debt to the people on this board who have shown all the love and respect to dad over the years, I will never forget it.

I don't mean to darken the mood here....but i've kept to myself for a long time, and I agree with everyone on here that we should all have the freedom of speech.  



Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Gavin Crumpton on October 13, 2009, 04:43:47 PM
This board is all about opinions, and I think if that applies at all it applies across the board, if you know what I mean.

I know Micky's not able to answer his critics, but we're not his critics - we're his friends.  ;D

C'mon folks...



If you're Micky's friend why are you so wholeheartedly supporting a band led by a man who has treated Micky and his family so apallingly? Anything goes?

I dont think any comparisons between Micky Jones and this current band are wise if there is to be any peace around here. He doesnt derserve any comparison whatsoever to the band who with their last tour and album have just put humiliation on the name of the band that was his life.

Uncalled for? I'd say so.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 13, 2009, 05:05:16 PM
NnnnnnnnnnggggggggggaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Damn, just bitten through my lip.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Davey on October 13, 2009, 05:19:50 PM
i know three or 4 posts came up as i was writing this but ...i think it is good to extol the fact from time to time that Micky Jones is one of the greatest singers of all time, as well as one of the greatest guitar players of all time, and probably a few other things musically and non related too...also one could make the argument that Oric compared two shows to each other with a gap of a few years in between.it doesn't have to be seen an overall picture of Micky Jones's development or progression as a vocalist.but i would also like to add as i've stated before i have never seen Man live except on film so my knowledge is  obviously limited on this subject    ...wait isn't the root cause of the recent split musical differences? ...i know no one wanted to touch this with a ten foot pole the last time i mentioned it,but when you look at the history of Man we see that Deke,Phil and Martin had left and rejoined at least three times each(and each of them did  worthwhile projects in the meantime),and some other members a few times too.this makes me hope for at least some kind of olive branch in the future sometime down the line if it/when it's possible.again here my knowledge is limited but thanks for letting me say my piece...also to George: i want to express interest in the guitar made after Micky if that is still happening.that would be a joy to have and play on -Peace-Davey  p.s. and to Gavin:will GWP vol 2 be coming out soon?...
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: mikes on October 13, 2009, 07:02:39 PM
George, we're dearly awaiting your project to start. I for myself had to come to terms with your split and I'm trying to be fine with it. I've given the other party a listen and I'm going to be one of the first buying a ticket as soon as you come over to Germany. Then I'm going to take you aside and take your view on everything. But please, you and Gavin, be so fair as to let people speak their minds, even though they might utter something that sounds unpleasant to you. As everybody else have put it: There is - and will be - only one Micky Jones. I've got fond memories about your dad, artistically and off-stage. No-one will be able to take these away from me. But then again there have been ebbs and flows and possibly oric had been to a show where weaker vocal performances were displayed.
I dare to say that everybody on board here sees Micky as an angel sent down (who wrote that great bit?  ;D ) and so do I. I remember a show in Winterbach (near Stuttgart). I was late and stormed and, right to the front of the stage. With Micky playing the upcoming solo right to me, hitting me right in the middle of my heart.

So if you're due to play in Germany I will be there and want to know from you, in person, why I shouldn't listen to the Ace/Ryan combination. But maybe you'll just make me forget all my questions and make me listen to what you're doing ...  ;)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: George Jones on October 13, 2009, 08:32:39 PM
Mike,

I think you have got the wrong idea.  I have no intention of putting people off seeing Martin and Phil, if they want to see them, then thats up to them. 
I hope if you come to see us in Germany when we come over, you will enjoy us for what we are.
What kind of person would I be, telling people what to listen to?

Something positive will come out of this for all of us.

That's all I can say on the matter.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Mark Davies on October 13, 2009, 09:11:08 PM
Mike,

I think you have got the wrong idea.  I have no intention of putting people off seeing Martin and Phil, if they want to see them, then thats up to them. 
I hope if you come to see us in Germany when we come over, you will enjoy us for what we are.
What kind of person would I be, telling people what to listen to?

Something positive will come out of this for all of us.

That's all I can say on the matter.

Well said George. Looking forward to seeing 'Son of Man', hopefully sometime soon.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: AlanK on October 13, 2009, 09:53:32 PM
Quote

I dont think any comparisons between Micky Jones and this current band are wise if there is to be any peace around here. He doesnt derserve any comparison whatsoever to the band who with their last tour and album have just put humiliation on the name of the band that was his life.

Uncalled for? I'd say so.

Humiliation, Gavin?  

What I saw on Sunday night was exciting, passionate and musically right up there. I had turned up in part out of some sense of loyalty, having been a huge fan since 1973, but my expectations were low. Live at the Star Club didn't do it for me, and I thought the writing was on the wall then. I subscribed dutifully to TWC for many years, but eventually jacked that in as I felt a dead horse was being severely over flogged. (Sorry, Michael)

However, after Lathones I am completely re-invigorated and feel that the musical heritage is in safe hands. While you can never replace the irreplaceable, James Beck is a fine young guitarist who is obviously relishing the role he is playing in the band.
Vocally, I agree with Oric. On Sunday the vocals were strong and accomplished, and Josh can also only go on to greater things. Ren?, ich habe dich auch nicht vergessen. Mensch, du warst klasse!

I realise that the recent split was acrimonious to say the least, but the paying punter surely wants to see a concert where the classics are given a good airing, where the more recent stuff is on show and where the musicians are given a platform to impress, and that's exactly what I got on Sunday.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Gavin Crumpton on October 14, 2009, 09:10:57 AM
Quote

I dont think any comparisons between Micky Jones and this current band are wise if there is to be any peace around here. He doesnt derserve any comparison whatsoever to the band who with their last tour and album have just put humiliation on the name of the band that was his life.

Uncalled for? I'd say so.

Humiliation, Gavin?  

What I saw on Sunday night was exciting, passionate and musically right up there. I had turned up in part out of some sense of loyalty, having been a huge fan since 1973, but my expectations were low. Live at the Star Club didn't do it for me, and I thought the writing was on the wall then. I subscribed dutifully to TWC for many years, but eventually jacked that in as I felt a dead horse was being severely over flogged. (Sorry, Michael)


Yes, humiliation Alan.

Whilst it is without dispute that there are 10 or so people on here who REALLY like the band, lets consider the facts of the events of the last few months:

Kindgdom of Noise released which was rushed, unfinished, shoddy, poorly mixed etc. etc. The album has a one star rating on Amazon and even some of Martins fans are calling it 'mediocre.' All to be expected from an album masterminded by Martin Ace but very sad that it bears the Man name.

20 or so people turn up to see them at the Pontardawe Festival, several of whom ask for their money back after not recognising the people on stage and having to endure a set dominated by Aces novelty songs and rock and roll tunes. The gig is reported by one festival goer on the forum as being by "The Martin Ace Band"

13 People turn up to see the band at Wrexham

Man are only able to get a gig at the 100 Club by agreeing not to do any other London gigs on the tour (in the past 3 London gigs would have been the norm)
This gives the band the only gig on the tour where audience numbers exceed 30 something.

30 odd audience at Hebden Bridge
30 something at Southend

Rhondda Parc gig is cancelled after 0 (zero) advance tickets are sold

30ish attendance at Leeds
13 at Doncaster
20 at Lathones

I'd say thats a pretty humiliating series of events. I just hope Martin and Phil are getting the message now! The only sad thing is that the Man name has been attached to all of this. Devalued and run in to the ground by Martin and co. Many of the bands past members think its time for the name to be laid to rest after the events of the last year of so I'm sure many are sad to see the band in its current state.

I have heard through the grapevine that Martin is considering calling it a day after the lack of interest in the recent tour and with TWC finishing at the end of the year.
It is the only dignified thing left to do. The horse is well and truly dead now.

Whether or not that happens it is highly unlikely there will ever be a Man UK tour again after the turnout on this tour. An average audience of 20 someting does not generate enough money to cover the bands fee (?500-?600) and the PA costs, let alone leave any profit for the promoter.

Sorry guys but that is the harsh reality of the situation.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 14, 2009, 10:12:38 AM
Jeez Gavin. How many times?

YOU HAVE MADE YOUR POINT.

We understand the point you have made.

We accept your point of view.

Now accept ours or (in yor own quaint Anglo-Saxon words) f*** off. Somebody's upset you and now you're trying to make all the rest of us be upset too. It's playground stuff.

If you had any sort of open mind and interest in the music of the Manband, you would have gone along to at least one of the gigs on the tour and heard for yourself what everyone else is talking about and which apparently you can't bear to hear: that the music is alive and well, being performed with renewed passion and energy. Fighting your one-man campaign to ensure that the Manband closes down and is never heard live again hardly serves the music or the men who started it all and who, however dismayed we may all be by the fact, are no longer playing it themselves.

You should be ashamed of yourself for expressing your love for the Manband this way. In the astonishingly healing words of George himself, who has more grounds for grievance and sadness than you or any of us, I think you have got the wrong idea.  What kind of person are you, telling people what to listen to? Although this forum is also for discussing the band's history, you're clearly no longer a fan of the the Manband in its current form, and you're just out to spoil it for the rest of us who are. I really think that if this is all you have to say on the matter, you have said it, clearly and repeatedly, and should now stop posting on this board, for your own sake and ours.

Sorry, everyone else! I do try to refrain from negative vibes. It's what us old hippies were put on earth to do. But I'm finding Gavin's postings increasingly poisonous. We can't have all the apples, but we can have some apples, and Gavin wants us to have no apples, just memories of apples. Well I like apples.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: AlanK on October 14, 2009, 10:40:19 AM
Well said, Oric.

I was just pondering my reply when yours appeared.  I quickly realised that I couldn't have put it better myself - except I might have used bananas in the analogy rather than apples.

This new line up has a future and hopefully word will spread about just how good the live show is. I have already confessed that I went to Lathones with a heavy degree of scepticism. If a few more sceptics can be persuaded to give the new line up a whirl, I'm sure that things can go from strength to strength. It just needs people to take that step, because once they are through the doors, I can't see them being anything but enthused.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Gavin Crumpton on October 14, 2009, 10:45:59 AM
Oric, why is ok for you, Jules Michael and Allan etc to make the same point repeatedly and not me?
Do you only want to hear opinions you agree with? Do you want a one sided forum that praises Martin's band constantly? I'm hardly a lone voice in these opinions am I?

Are you so uncomforable with the truth that you dont want it to be told? Do you want everyone to pretend everything is fine in the Manband world when it clearly isnt!

What kind of a person am I? Well a better one than Martin Ace because I dont treat my mates like shit when they become seriously ill. How dare you make comments about me like that!

It is you who should be ashamed of yourself for being offensive and intolerant of other peoples views because you dont like them. I've never told anyone not to listen to. Never. I have an issue with Martin using/abusing the Man name in the way he is. Lets face it the only reason he is, is because nobody would be interested if it were called The Martin Ace Band.

And for the millionth time I'm not upset, I'm actually very happy and enjoying seeing Martin and Phil falling flat on their faces. It isnt often in life people get the comeuppance they deserve is it?

Whether you like it or nor Oric things are falling apart at the seams. Get your head our of the sand or out of Martin Aces arse if thats were you keep it and get a reality check.



Jeez Gavin. How many times?

YOU HAVE MADE YOUR POINT.

We understand the point you have made.

We accept your point of view.

Now accept ours or (in yor own quaint Anglo-Saxon words) f*** off. Somebody's upset you and now you're trying to make all the rest of us be upset too. It's playground stuff.

If you had any sort of open mind and interest in the music of the Manband, you would have gone along to at least one of the gigs on the tour and heard for yourself what everyone else is talking about and which apparently you can't bear to hear: that the music is alive and well, being performed with renewed passion and energy. Fighting your one-man campaign to ensure that the Manband closes down and is never heard live again hardly serves the music or the men who started it all and who, however dismayed we may all be by the fact, are no longer playing it themselves.

You should be ashamed of yourself for expressing your love for the Manband this way. In the astonishingly healing words of George himself, who has more grounds for grievance and sadness than you or any of us, I think you have got the wrong idea.  What kind of person are you, telling people what to listen to? Although this forum is also for discussing the band's history, you're clearly no longer a fan of the the Manband in its current form, and you're just out to spoil it for the rest of us who are. I really think that if this is all you have to say on the matter, you have said it, clearly and repeatedly, and should now stop posting on this board, for your own sake and ours.

Sorry, everyone else! I do try to refrain from negative vibes. It's what us old hippies were put on earth to do. But I'm finding Gavin's postings increasingly poisonous. We can't have all the apples, but we can have some apples, and Gavin wants us to have no apples, just memories of apples. Well I like apples.

Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 14, 2009, 11:06:47 AM
Thanks, AlanK - can't believe I used apples instead of bananas! What was I thinking!

(Actually, this is appallingly domestic, but we've just dug our juicer out of storage and are making fresh juice every morning for breakfast - hugely satisfying gadget fun, and you can kid yourelf you're being really healthy too. This morning's recipe - two apples, four sweet potatoes, an Asian pear and two carrots. Damn fine, and I think that's why apples were on the brain.)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: AlanK on October 14, 2009, 11:23:49 AM
Oric, why is ok for you, Jules Michael and Allan etc to make the same point repeatedly and not me?
Do you only want to hear opinions you agree with? Do you want a one sided forum that praises Martin's band constantly? I'm hardly a lone voice in these opinions am I?



Gavin

You claim not to be a lone voice of criticism, but a quick review of the posts following the recent UK dates shows nothing but positive comments about the band, the playing, the set choice etc. etc. I looked hard for someone who was actually there to say that something was naff, but couldn't see anything negative at all.

Obviously wounds are deep, but and you are, of course, entitled to allow them to fester for ever and a day, if that is what you want.

Come on boys, do something. Just a little bit would help. It's better than doing nothing, instead of sitting round thinking of yourself......


Come on boys, do something. You gotta make your move. It's better than doing nothing, instead of hanging round with those complex blues........


Ring a bell?
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Gavin Crumpton on October 14, 2009, 11:35:18 AM
Oric, why is ok for you, Jules Michael and Allan etc to make the same point repeatedly and not me?
Do you only want to hear opinions you agree with? Do you want a one sided forum that praises Martin's band constantly? I'm hardly a lone voice in these opinions am I?



Gavin

You claim not to be a lone voice of criticism, but a quick review of the posts following the recent UK dates shows nothing but positive comments about the band, the playing, the set choice etc. etc. I looked hard for someone who was actually there to say that something was naff, but couldn't see anything negative at all.

Obviously wounds are deep, but and you are, of course, entitled to allow them to fester for ever and a day, if that is what you want.

Come on boys, do something. Just a little bit would help. It's better than doing nothing, instead of sitting round thinking of yourself......


Come on boys, do something. You gotta make your move. It's better than doing nothing, instead of hanging round with those complex blues........


Ring a bell?


Like I said there are a small number of people who REALLY like this current band, People are voting with their feet both at the gigs and by not bothering to post on here any more.

I'd really like to know why you think I have wounds rather than an opinion?
I'd say if any one has wounds to heal it's the Manband after the year they've had!

If were going to quote Man lyrics how about "When the end comes in sight, you will find I was right..."
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 14, 2009, 12:04:06 PM
Or we could have:-

"I've got a funny kind of feeling that you don't like us no more........................."

:)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Gavin Crumpton on October 14, 2009, 12:07:10 PM
Or we could have:-

"I've got a funny kind of feeling that you don't like us no more........................."

:)

I always like that the last track on the last Man album is called "Dissolve into Despair"

How apt!
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: HSamuel on October 14, 2009, 12:19:23 PM
"The moment we want to believe something, we suddenly see all the arguments for it, and become blind to the arguments against it." (George Bernard Shaw)

Without wishing to take sides in the ongoing 'debate' it appears to me that there are two diametrically opposed views here, one is that Martin (by virtue of his treatment of George, Micky & Bob) does not deserve to be calling the band 'Man', and that people should not condone his actions by attending gigs - the other that the music that Man have been producin on the current tour outweighs any ethical considerations, and that it's only the music that matters.  Both sides has now become so entrenched that it has became 'personal'.  Guys - PLEASE agree to differ, and in the words of Sir Cliff - Move On (... or should that have been Move It)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 14, 2009, 12:39:11 PM
Wise words, Mr Samuel, and as they say so often on Dragon's Den, I'm out (of this particular debate) with apologies to all for having stirred it up again. It's not what I come here for!
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: lloydie on October 14, 2009, 01:20:03 PM
Lets hope next year we will have the current line up and George and Bobs to support.What a bonus !! How about a double header with Space Ritual or similar.  :) :)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Pete T on October 14, 2009, 06:13:20 PM
You claim not to be a lone voice of criticism, but a quick review of the posts following the recent UK dates shows nothing but positive..
Alan K,

There are a lot of Man fans who have given up with the current incarnation of the "Man" band. Because of the crap latest album, because of the way the Joneses and Richards have been treated, and because the thought of thought of attending an Ace driven concert with Ace penned songs.
I have made my feelings on this well known, and have since stopped posting here because the rest of the posters here can only see Ace through rose tinted eyes (God, he'll write a ditty about that now).
It is MY opinion that Man ceased to exist after George and Bob were booted out, and that I'd rather keep my memories of the good days (and I've got lots of them), rather than spoil them with the Martin Ace Band.. Any music created since the split is weakening the back-catalogue of a once great band.
I fully suport Gavin, and his comments..

I am only posting this because AlanK is new here, and dosen't seem to realise the extent of the bad feelings towards MAM, so don't bother telling me to f*** off again.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: AlanK on October 15, 2009, 09:07:09 AM
Pete

I fully take your point.

I am 'new' in the sense that the 'noughties' were for me lost years, where anything that was happening in the world of Man passed me by in a haze of indifference. I'm sorry to admit that George, Bob & Gareth were just names and their musical output did not feature in my consciousness.

However I am 'old' in the sense of attending my first Man gig in 1973, buying a new Christmas at The Patti LP in the shops, having a blue Man T-shirt with guitars forming the rib cage, being in Barry & Jenny Marshall's fanclub and spending an unhealthy portion of my life listening to man on vinyl, CD and in MP3 format.

I am simply delighted that 2 of the guys who have given me so much pleasure over the years are still on the road, playing to such a high standard, and have managed to put together a cracking band which in my humble opinion is well worthy of the Man name.

I fully accept that others will see things differently. Kingdom of Noise has considerable defects, but after all how many of us play Endangered Species or Call Down the Moon more that Back into the Future, Be Good to Yourself  or 2 Oz of Plastic?

So, it's been an interesting few days, but that's me out of here for now.

Wishbone Ash in Aberdeen a week on Sunday - and there's only one original there, but who cares?



Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 15, 2009, 09:42:55 AM
Pete T and Alan K, all good points well made, and it would be a shame if either of you stopped contributing here  - it's not all heat and fire, and surely we all have much to agree on and enjoy together!

Endangered Species is right up there for me with BGTYALOAD. But one of the joys of this forum is finding that we all came to Man at different times and through different albums. (But I too bought Patti and Greasy new in the shops - thrilling times, those days of discovery!)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 15, 2009, 10:19:26 AM
Wishbone Ash in Aberdeen a week on Sunday - and there's only one original there, but who cares?

Funnily enough, the other three original members who have serious issues with Mr Powell.   Martin Turner's WA are a much better band imo, albeit that they don't do any fresh stuff.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Michael Heatley on October 15, 2009, 10:24:11 AM
the rest of the posters here can only see Ace through rose tinted eyes

Sorry, what!?!?!

That does not apply to me, Pete - I am sure you didn't intend it to.

I have made a musical judgement on the new band based on my eyes and ears and am happy to stand by that. Anyone who sees the live shows and doesn't like, their opinions will carry more weight with me.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 15, 2009, 11:28:19 AM
the rest of the posters here can only see Ace through rose tinted eyes

Sorry, what!?!?!

That does not apply to me, Pete - I am sure you didn't intend it to.

I have made a musical judgement on the new band based on my eyes and ears and am happy to stand by that. Anyone who sees the live shows and doesn't like, their opinions will carry more weight with me.

I rather suspect most people will have had a similar response to you on Pete's comment.   There's a line between disagreeing with someone's opinions and belittling them............
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 15, 2009, 12:43:36 PM
Yes, same here. In fact I was recalling on the way home from Lathones how critical I had been of the setlist of the current line-up a few months ago, when it was for my taste too reliant on Martin's jokier material. In fact it wasn't until a couple of days before the gig, and pursuaded by the positive reviews of all those who posted them, that I decided to give the band a fair hearing and go along at all. Very glad I did.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Pete T on October 15, 2009, 09:53:31 PM
Sorry, what!?!?!
That does not apply to me, Pete - I am sure you didn't intend it to.
I have made a musical judgement on the new band based on my eyes and ears and am happy to stand by that. Anyone who sees the live shows and doesn't like, their opinions will carry more weight with me.
Appologies to all if I offended. But the atmosphere here is a little heated at the moment.
There are 4 kinds of people.
1. Those that have never heard, or dislike Man (as close to 100% of the population as is possible)
The remaining miniscule portions are split as follows..
2. Those that like the 70's 10-30 minute epics, C'mon, Love your life, Spunk Rock, Bananas in their varying forms
3. Those that like the 80's-00's shorter songs.
4. Those that like 2. and 3.

I, clearly, fit into the second kind, while you, Micheal, are in group 4, along with Jules, Allan, and a host of others. It is this group that I was trying to give a name to, I shall call you group 4's from now on.. :)
The above groups are very loose, as there are songs from the recent era that easily fit into group 2, and songs from the 70's that fit into group 4. Now what was it I was trying to say ??? 

I rather suspect most people will have had a similar response to you on Pete's comment.   There's a line between disagreeing with someone's opinions and belittling them............
Iwasn't trying to belittle, I hope the above explains this OK without causing any more offence..
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 15, 2009, 10:26:14 PM
None taken here, PeteT.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Michael Heatley on October 15, 2009, 10:35:30 PM
If you've binned the rose tinted specs, apology accepted Pete. 

But the second bit of my post stands. You can't judge a set by the setlist...but as you are a million miles from civilisation I almost exempt you.  ;)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 15, 2009, 11:32:08 PM
I, clearly, fit into the second kind, while you, Micheal, are in group 4, along with Jules, Allan, and a host of others. It is this group that I was trying to give a name to, I shall call you group 4's from now on.. :)

There's a certain security about this  ::)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Jules on October 15, 2009, 11:43:56 PM
There are 4 kinds of people.
1. Those that have never heard, or dislike Man (as close to 100% of the population as is possible)
The remaining miniscule portions are split as follows..
2. Those that like the 70's 10-30 minute epics, C'mon, Love your life, Spunk Rock, Bananas in their varying forms
3. Those that like the 80's-00's shorter songs.
4. Those that like 2. and 3.

Can I be awkward and be in group 5, 'cos I also like the shorter songs from the 60's and 70's and the longer songs from the 80's and 00's too? Life wouldn't be the same without songs like "Daughter Of The Fireplace", "Don't Just Stand There", "One More Chance", "Face To Face", "Call Down The Moon".

No offence taken by me Pete, I do understand that there's some stuff we like and some we don't.   
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: John Bannon on October 16, 2009, 12:35:57 AM


 I shall call you group 4's from now on..

[/quote]
[/quote]

Sorry Pete but Group Four are now owned by Securicor, people from that group have always sold out to the highest bidder......
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 16, 2009, 12:49:38 AM
Aren't Securicor/Group 4 the prisoner transportation firm who keep losing their charges? Constantly troubled by escapees. Imagine that - a group of men in the back of a van, and there seems to be nothing Group 4 can do to keep that group together. Jailhouse/Rock!
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Pete T on October 16, 2009, 12:59:33 AM
...but as you are a million miles from civilisation I almost exempt you.  ;)
..many are called, but few get up this far..
Looses something somewhere..
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Martin Daughton on October 16, 2009, 10:49:47 AM
It's frightening how similar we are as all the smartarse comments about group 4 and changing groups that I was going to make have been made....
Still, a propos, I claim group 6 in that I really only like the 60s and 70s output...
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 16, 2009, 11:01:30 AM
I'm in Group 7.

Even in the halcyon years, I think I preferred the offshoot bands, particularly Help Yourself and Neutrons.



Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 16, 2009, 11:39:05 AM
You see that's the problem/joy of the Manband, there are as many groups as there are individual fans! (And come to think of it, probably as many offshoot groups as there are fans).

But actually, now you mention it RobW, I'm kinda Group 7 myself - it was the whole raft of the extended Manband family that was always part of the joy of being into them - all the associated little alleys and cul-de-sacs down which to dive for an LP or two. Helps, Neutrons, Alkatraz, Iceberg, Happy Daze ... all good family fun.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Allan Heron on October 16, 2009, 12:30:49 PM
My first gig was on the Up For The Day tour at the City Halls in Glasgow (where I was in touching distance of Mr Ace on balcony and could easily have pushed him off had I been so minded).   I was along with a bunch of mates rather than with any pre-expectations (although I had heard the Man album and loved Daughter of The Fireplace but felt its' impact was somewhat lessened by what followed!).

I loved the whole thing but it was Iceberg I rushed out to buy the following day (?1.85 from the original Virgin in Argyle Street), so I was primarily a Deke fan.  I was really pleased when he rejoined the band as I felt this matched up the songwriting chops with the playing chops.  (Much as I enjoy BGTYALOD and BITF, there's not that many great songs on there - superb playing and mostly structured compositions but not great songs.  Don't Go Away is certainly one of the exceptions).

Having said that, Iceberg apart, whilst there's a lot of good music in the offshoot bands it's all definitely of slightly lesser variety. (And perhaps a common thread is not having rhythm sections of the same calibre which lets the material down a little)   I don't regard the Helps as an offshoot, by the way.  If I'd heard the Helps first, I might be inclined to make a case for Man being a Helps offshoot!!
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Davey on October 16, 2009, 06:15:00 PM
..uhh i call group 8(someone else can have 9)for my very own!... :) ...details furnished upon request...
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 16, 2009, 07:05:01 PM
..uhh i call group 8(someone else can have 9)for my very own!... :) ...details furnished upon request...

Group 8, now that takes me back to my youth..... you didn't race group 8 single seaters in the 70's did you?? Tony Trimmer - a past hero of mine.

And considering all the kerfuffle about audience size at Man gigs, 20 or so at Lathones and 5 pages of posts. Not bad eh!

Thought I'd try to shoehorn it back on topic.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Colin Salter on October 16, 2009, 07:10:43 PM
And steering it defiantly OFF topic again ...

I have a prized old 45 I picked up in a church fete white elephant years ago, by Group X (as opposed to Brand X) with the greatest title ever for a jangly guitar-driven instrumental track from the 60s: "There are Eight Million Cossack Melodies - and This is One of Them". Pure joy from start to finish, in a taking-the-piss-put of the-Prisoner-theme Telstar sort of way. Found it on a compilation CD again last year, reunited and still love it.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Davey on October 16, 2009, 11:32:08 PM
..uhh i call group 8(someone else can have 9)for my very own!... :) ...details furnished upon request...

Group 8, now that takes me back to my youth..... you didn't race group 8 single seaters in the 70's did you?? Tony Trimmer - a past hero of mine.

... no unfortunately that's another thing i missed out on.oh the pain...more stories please

everybody(at your convenience of course)...peace
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Mark Davies on October 17, 2009, 12:51:35 AM

how many of us play Endangered Species or Call Down the Moon more that Back into the Future, Be Good to Yourself  or 2 Oz of Plastic?


Endangered Species was OK, but no more. Love Call Down the Moon. Love BGTY. Got around to BITF & 2oz relatively late on, and have to say they are OK , but never shone for me.

So in a nutshell, I play CTDM far more than BITF and 2oz.

Man fandom should be a broad church :)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Jules on October 17, 2009, 11:27:37 AM
Man fandom should be a broad church :)

Especially as several of us don't easily squeeze through narrow doors these days. ;D
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 17, 2009, 12:18:05 PM


Man fandom should be a broad church :)
[/quote]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Will have to be a very broad church as I'm a descendant of the Red Sea pedestrians

who happens to be going out with a muslim.....now there's some fireworks!

:)  :)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Jules on October 17, 2009, 02:20:32 PM
Kind of Houmus meets Hamas then?
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Rob W on October 17, 2009, 03:42:13 PM
Kind of Houmus meets Hamas then?

Very humerous..........Jules  :)
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Nick Nation on October 17, 2009, 04:48:00 PM
Ohh I get it! Charlotte Church! She's Welsh.

Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Ron S on October 21, 2009, 07:21:57 PM

how many of us play Endangered Species or Call Down the Moon more that Back into the Future, Be Good to Yourself  or 2 Oz of Plastic?


Endangered Species was OK, but no more. Love Call Down the Moon. Love BGTY. Got around to BITF & 2oz relatively late on, and have to say they are OK , but never shone for me.

So in a nutshell, I play CTDM far more than BITF and 2oz.

Man fandom should be a broad church :)

ES has Face To Face, the last great Man song. In all fairness, I think they needed to make this album after our low budget job on CDTM. I'm glad you rate CDTM so well. I think it sits in with the catalog just fine. There are a couple I do think are much better, Do You Like It and BGTY are the two milestones in their recorded career. Rhinos comes in a close second, a great collection of tunes. TWC is also high on my list, and will sound much better, once they let me remix the bastard.
Title: Re: Man at The Inn At Lathones
Post by: Nick Nation on October 21, 2009, 09:29:35 PM
TWC is also high on my list, and will sound much better, once they let me remix the bastard.

....alternatively it could sound much worse, once they let me muck about and put jungle noises over it.

Ron - any idea of the tape/speed/width of the original multi-track? The studio (Olympic) has now shut, incidentally - I gather many tapes were literally chucked into a skip!