Interesting how you lose interest in the legitamacy of this release once you know Martin and Phil are getting their share. And it wouldnt be the first time you try to cover up Martin and Phils misdemeanours would it (KON write up for instance)?
There's no cover up in the Kingdom Of Noise review Gav, perhaps you should read it again. What you choose to regard as Martin and Phil's misdemeanours are just a one-sided interpretation of the facts. The several other interpretations are equally valid. I don't understand where you get the impression that my comments were patronising.
On a serious matter, if you have any evidence of theft, you should certainly take it to the appropriate authorities.
Actually it isnt one sided I've heard what happened in some detail from the staff at the studio. I'd say they were pretty much neutral in this and had no reason to lie. And the stuff re Georges guitar tracks is utter bollox they were pretty much finished. Actually George has mixes of KON wih his guitar tracks present. They were deleted and replaced. Fact!
You've rewritten the bands recent history to show your mates in a better light and thats all there is too it.
It does seriously dent the credibility of the whole archive when you deliberately write and publish an article which is so inaccurate. What else on here is fabricated Jules???
I stand by the review, and everything else in the Archive.
My review says George's guitar tracks were "left unfinished". Your comment says they were "pretty much finished". Spot the difference? I can't. I'm aware George's tracks were later deleted. The view I was given at the time was that it wouldn't be proper to present Kingdom Of Noise as it was originally recorded, as "that lineup no longer exists". Can't say I fully agree with the sentiments, but that's not my call. It wouldn't have been the first time in Man's recorded history that a release was issued with only two of the previous members still in the lineup. Bob still features prominently on several Kingdom Of Noise tracks, which seems to suggest it could have been done.
From what I've heard of events in the studio, I couldn't regard the staff as neutral. From what I've heard of behaviour in the studio, I'd have to consider that a number of people stepped over lines that they might, on reflection, not have done. Your earlier comments outline much the same information that was shared with me. George offered some songs that were not accepted, either because they weren't finished or weren't regarded as suitable (I've not heard any of them, so I'm not entitled to offer an opinion). Phil, as the producer, had a running battle with the studio staff, who seemingly couldn't do what he needed from them, or couldn't understand what was being requested. Tempers ran hot. George and Bob sided with the studio people rather than their band. They were sacked. Emotions run high when people are under stress, and can spill out in unwelcome ways. Band loyalty, and dis-loyalty, sometimes comes at a price. For the avoidance of doubt, I do not blame George or Bob for the breakup, any more than I do Martin, Phil or Josh, or anyone involved in the periphery.
My review deliberately downplayed the situation in the studio in order to avoid needlessly agitating
everyone who was involved, not just Martin and Phil. The aim was to provide some information about the music, with the background being just that, background. Each of the album reviews has an interactive section for Archive visitors to add their own comments if desired. Quite a few have done so on various albums. Obviously, defamatory or actionable comments couldn't be allowed to stand in the Archive itself, but there's a natural outlet for everyone to express more extreme views in this Forum.
I'm saddened that what was potentially a productive lineup of Man exploded the way it did. I voiced my opinions on the split to Martin at the time, as has also been noted here previously. I thought heads should be knocked together until they saw sense again. Again though, my personal observations were that the cracks were appearing well before the recording sessions, which served mainly as the flashpoint.
That said, we move on. I'm delighted to have heard James Beck and Rene Robrahn playing in the current line up. They both bring something new, which would not otherwise have happened. Both have talent and shouldn't be tarred and feathered by the circumstances that created the openings for them. James and Phil have a great musical relationship building and I hope they can develop it further. Perhaps it's worth re-stating that the purpose of the Archive is "Celebrating the past, present and future of the legendary Welsh rock band MAN". I fully intend to maintain that purpose.
For George and Bob, the future's theirs. I've followed George's work with the Cover Sluts with interest and I'm very glad the George's recent time on the bench has come to an end again. When "Son Of Man" get going, they'll feature prominently in the Archive, and of course any music released will get an equally biased and inevitably glowing review. Bob's career over the past couple of years has been a bit more difficult for me to follow as it seems to be mostly session work. Same rules apply though, if a band gets off the ground, it'll be covered in the Archive.
I would of course like to feel that I'd be welcome at the Christmas Jam this year. It seems doubtful in some quarters. I couldn't make the tribute shows (still bought as much merch as I could), but December's not out of the question.
