Leamington Spa

[Gavin Crumpton]

I beg to differ Gav,Jules invests a considerable amount of time providing this forum for Man enthusiasts and I think if you read his posts he tries to stay as balanced as poss

All respect to Jules for providing the archive and forum. It has been invaluable especially for communicating gig and release info. Unquestionably so. I'm also extremely thankful to Jules personally for his assistance with, and the archive as a resource for, GWP1. But he has let himself and the archive down since the split in 2008 by not staying balanced and the KON write up is a prime example of this and his approach has perpertuated a lot of the bad feeling.

With KON, he had listened to both sides and taken and reported Martin's side entirely, how is that balanced? Where there is a variance in the accounts of what happened surely the best thing would have been to say nothing or at the very least attribute what was written to Martin.
 
He is very good mates with Martin and thats where he's coming from these days. He wont even acknowledge how many long term fans Martin has lost the band since 2008.

Gloss over and cover up anything negative thats what it's all about here these days!

[Rusby]

the only thing we hear of son of man is the talking of Gavin here in this forum. when will there be something on the musical side to listen to? that would be more interesting than this shit here in the forum. my point of view within 3 years there should be something to listen to for everyone and not only for ppl involved making the records or something like that... End
____________________________________________
I agree with Uncle Bill who post this:
____________________________________________
"I'M GLAD THAT DEKE WAS THERE AND ABLE TO PERFORM AS WELL AS EVERYONE WHO WAS THERE SAYS. I'M GLAD THAT MARTIN AND PHIL ARE STILL ALIVE AND ABLE TO PERFORM. I'M GLAD THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TODAY ABLE TO BE ROWING AND ARGUING ABOUT STUFF OVER WHICH WE HAVE NO SAY. NO DOUBT THIS LITTLE HOPE FOR TOLERANCE AND GOODWILL TO ALL BEINGS WILL BE MISUNDERSTOOD BUT NEVERTHELESS....

MAY ALL BEINGS BE HAPPY
MAY ALL BEINGS BE WELL
MAY ALL BEINGS BE FREE FROM SUFFERING"

[Gavin Crumpton]

Not quite the only thing:

Son of Man performed at Mickys memorial concert, one song of which is on YouTube.

George has just announced they will be playing at the xmas party on Dec 17th

As for the LP I fully agree it should be finished and released before people lose interest, if they havent already. Whats happening George? Bob?

the only thing we hear of son of man is the talking of Gavin here in this forum. when will there be something on the musical side to listen to? that would be more interesting than this shit here in the forum. my point of view within 3 years there should be something to listen to for everyone and not only for ppl involved making the records or something like that... End
____________________________________________
I agree with Uncle Bill who post this:
____________________________________________
"I'M GLAD THAT DEKE WAS THERE AND ABLE TO PERFORM AS WELL AS EVERYONE WHO WAS THERE SAYS. I'M GLAD THAT MARTIN AND PHIL ARE STILL ALIVE AND ABLE TO PERFORM. I'M GLAD THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TODAY ABLE TO BE ROWING AND ARGUING ABOUT STUFF OVER WHICH WE HAVE NO SAY. NO DOUBT THIS LITTLE HOPE FOR TOLERANCE AND GOODWILL TO ALL BEINGS WILL BE MISUNDERSTOOD BUT NEVERTHELESS....

MAY ALL BEINGS BE HAPPY
MAY ALL BEINGS BE WELL
MAY ALL BEINGS BE FREE FROM SUFFERING"

[Akeno-Pool]

 But he has let himself and the archive down since the split in 2008 by not staying balanced and the KON write up is a prime example of this and his approach has perpertuated a lot of the bad feeling.

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for you to set up your own archive.....

[Iowerth Pritchard]

But he has let himself and the archive down since the split in 2008 by not staying balanced and the KON write up is a prime example of this and his approach has perpertuated a lot of the bad feeling.

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for you to set up your own archive.....

An alternative Manband Archive is totally unnecessary.  The resource that Jules has provided is excellent, and I think we all would all want to thank him for the countless hours he must have spent working on it. 

I think problems can start to arise once the content moves away from pure data onto the review side of things.  By it's very nature a review will contain the reviewer's own viewpoint on the subject matter, and if the reviewer has a personal connection or friendship with the artist(s) it will inevitably colour the review - for good or for bad.

The Manband's turnover in personnel and its changing musical approaches means that many people will favour different periods or albums, and for one person to create a review which both encompasses all views. and also tries to remain impartial, is an impossibility.  To this end could I suggest to Jules that some sort of Archive member review system (a simple 0 - 5 rating, with say a 20 word comments facility) be tagged onto the Manband core catalogue?  This would relieve Jules of the review burden, and enable visitors to the archive to read a cross section of viewpoints.

[Allan Heron]

But he has let himself and the archive down since the split in 2008 by not staying balanced and the KON write up is a prime example of this and his approach has perpertuated a lot of the bad feeling.

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for you to set up your own archive.....

An alternative Manband Archive is totally unnecessary.  The resource that Jules has provided is excellent, and I think we all would all want to thank him for the countless hours he must have spent working on it. 

I think problems can start to arise once the content moves away from pure data onto the review side of things.  By it's very nature a review will contain the reviewer's own viewpoint on the subject matter, and if the reviewer has a personal connection or friendship with the artist(s) it will inevitably colour the review - for good or for bad.

The Manband's turnover in personnel and its changing musical approaches means that many people will favour different periods or albums, and for one person to create a review which both encompasses all views. and also tries to remain impartial, is an impossibility.  To this end could I suggest to Jules that some sort of Archive member review system (a simple 0 - 5 rating, with say a 20 word comments facility) be tagged onto the Manband core catalogue?  This would relieve Jules of the review burden, and enable visitors to the archive to read a cross section of viewpoints.

Absolutely correct - no comment, review or anything similar is neutral or impartial.    Nor should it be.   If it attempts to be it's almost certainly going to be utterly boring.

No one writes a review, a book or similar without bringing their perspective to the party.  When it comes to reading biographies the really interesting characters can generate books from different perspectives that are all worth reading.   If you're very lucky, you might get a feeling for the real person from all those different sources and the perspective that they've applied to their subjects' lives.   Same applies with reviews or commentary about bands.

What we have all been discussing here is largely differences in opinion and perspective.   There's not much dispute about the facts but facts on their own are boring.  Facts concentrate on what happened, when there's always far more interest in why things happened.   And there's no reason whatsoever to expect that there's ever going to be a definitive and universally agreed answer to that question.

[Gavin Crumpton]

But he has let himself and the archive down since the split in 2008 by not staying balanced and the KON write up is a prime example of this and his approach has perpertuated a lot of the bad feeling.

Sounds like a perfect opportunity for you to set up your own archive.....

An alternative Manband Archive is totally unnecessary.  The resource that Jules has provided is excellent, and I think we all would all want to thank him for the countless hours he must have spent working on it. 

I think problems can start to arise once the content moves away from pure data onto the review side of things.  By it's very nature a review will contain the reviewer's own viewpoint on the subject matter, and if the reviewer has a personal connection or friendship with the artist(s) it will inevitably colour the review - for good or for bad.

The Manband's turnover in personnel and its changing musical approaches means that many people will favour different periods or albums, and for one person to create a review which both encompasses all views. and also tries to remain impartial, is an impossibility.  To this end could I suggest to Jules that some sort of Archive member review system (a simple 0 - 5 rating, with say a 20 word comments facility) be tagged onto the Manband core catalogue?  This would relieve Jules of the review burden, and enable visitors to the archive to read a cross section of viewpoints.

Absolutely correct - no comment, review or anything similar is neutral or impartial.    Nor should it be.   If it attempts to be it's almost certainly going to be utterly boring.

No one writes a review, a book or similar without bringing their perspective to the party.  When it comes to reading biographies the really interesting characters can generate books from different perspectives that are all worth reading.   If you're very lucky, you might get a feeling for the real person from all those different sources and the perspective that they've applied to their subjects' lives.   Same applies with reviews or commentary about bands.

What we have all been discussing here is largely differences in opinion and perspective.   There's not much dispute about the facts but facts on their own are boring.  Facts concentrate on what happened, when there's always far more interest in why things happened.   And there's no reason whatsoever to expect that there's ever going to be a definitive and universally agreed answer to that question.

Thats all fine. But what isnt IMO is someone with their own agenda writing an article that is deliberately littered with inaccuracies to mislead those reading it. I think it used to be called propoganda, which is what Jules' KON write up, beyond any reasonable doubt, is.
 

[Akeno-Pool]

An alternative Manband Archive is totally unnecessary.  The resource that Jules has provided is excellent, and I think we all would all want to thank him for the countless hours he must have spent working on it. 

I completely agree - it is an amazing and most valuable creation.

[Rob W]

I thought A-P's suggestion of Gav setting up an alternative archive had perhaps, more pointed connotations.

I maybe on my own here, but I do wonder if much of the content of this and other similar threads, would be better served by PM's between Gav and Jules. I don't think any of this has done or is doing anybody any favours, least of all George and Bob

[Allan Heron]

I thought A-P's suggestion of Gav setting up an alternative archive had perhaps, more pointed connotations.

I maybe on my own here, but I do wonder if much of the content of this and other similar threads, would be better served by PM's between Gav and Jules. I don't think any of this has done or is doing anybody any favours, least of all George and Bob

We're going round and round in circles.  Different people think different things.   No need to try to attempt to reconcile or for one to try to convince the other of the error of their ways.

Best way to bring it to a conclusion is to stop posting entirely.  I doubt there's much value to be served by Gavn and Jules exchanding PM's either - we know their positions.   And I doubt private correspondence will move either which is fair enough.

John Coltrane once said to Miles Davis that he found it difficult to stop playing when Miles was chastising him about the length of his solos.   "The first thing you could try", growled Miles, "is take the fucking horn out of your mouth".

[Colin Salter]

I don't think PMs are the answer. The tone of Gavin's declamatory postings here and elsewhere, and indeed his open letter here to Martin, make it clear that he wants a public voice. He wants us all to hear his pain. He wants us all to hear his anger. Well, Gavin, I hear you. Can anyone else hear Gavin? Tell Gavin you can hear him.

[Rob W]

I was being polite by suggesting PM's.

I'll reword it. Maybe selfishly, and I accept it may be my view only...

Gav, for the billionth time, and also Jules, can you both shut the f*ck up, because nobody is getting anywhere on this, least of all George and Bob. Gav, if there are legal ramifications to all of this, take it to the appropriate authorities.

IMO like !!!

[Gavin Crumpton]

I don't think PMs are the answer. The tone of Gavin's declamatory postings here and elsewhere, and indeed his open letter here to Martin, make it clear that he wants a public voice. He wants us all to hear his pain. He wants us all to hear his anger. Well, Gavin, I hear you. Can anyone else hear Gavin? Tell Gavin you can hear him.

Of all the monkeys you come to life the most everytime the cage is rattled Colin dont you?

No pain no anger. I would have thought it was blindingly obvious that I just rattle the cage every time Martin plays as Man, partly for my own amusement, but mainly to cause some discomfort for the arsehole that is Martin Ace and his disciples. They deserve it. People like Colin keep responding even when its spelt out to them which I thought Id done quite clearly on Saturday. Its been hilarious this time listening to everyone get so defensive and righteous yet again, but this will be the last time I promise 3 years is enough. As Alan said its time to get that fucking horn out of my mouth.

Love and peace to you all, except Colin S of course...

[Colin Salter]

I hear you, Gavin.

[Akeno-Pool]

I thought A-P's suggestion of Gav setting up an alternative archive had perhaps, more pointed connotations.

I maybe on my own here, but I do wonder if much of the content of this and other similar threads, would be better served by PM's between Gav and Jules. I don't think any of this has done or is doing anybody any favours, least of all George and Bob

Spot on Rob, just to reduce the friction.