A NEW BEGINNING......

[Tony Smith]

I dont think were past caring, the bands music has been in most of our blood for a long time , i think its a matter of well lets see what happens who's going to do what .. and be able to make it work ect or will the whole thing crumble and thats the end ,  one things for sure the music is there and thank goodness for the remasters , and im glad we took cameras to some of the gigs  and im glad we did God Walking Past and im sure we will do other stuff so what ever happens the history will be preserved! 

cheers
tony

[Dave Bardsley]

Does the fact this thread has lain undisturbed for a week mean that
(a) everyone's said what needed to be said or
(b) we are past caring?

No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.

[Pete T]

Hit it on the nail there Tony and Dave, all we can do is offer our support (I've been doing that for 35 years now!!). It's now up to Martin and Josh, and George and Bob to sort things out. As soon as they have news, I'm sure we'll be aware of it..

On another front, after 30+ years working on a government research station, I've just handed in my notice, my shoulders suddenly feel a lot higher.. Technically I have to work until 2nd Jan, but have some hols left, and it's Xmas, and the Green Ray are on on the 12th.. Scotland soon 

[Nick Nation]

No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.

Spot On, Mr B.

In fact the forum has been quiet all round whilst this has been going off. I now wish I hadn't given my gut reaction to Martin's message. However...I do think there will be something positive out of this.....the force is strong in the young one.....

[Tim W]

Does the fact this thread has lain undisturbed for a week mean that
(a) everyone's said what needed to be said or

Michael, how can it be everyone's said what needed to be said when we have yet to read the definitive account in TWC? As the subs are about due, you have a great marketing ploy here.

[John Bannon]

Does the fact this thread has lain undisturbed for a week mean that
(a) everyone's said what needed to be said or
(b) we are past caring?

No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.

Michael, I think we've all kept a low profile in the hope the group can sort out their own problems, taking Rob the Organs advice, a few postings ago.
In total agreement with Dave it's up to the group to sort this problem out.
My personal viewpoint..... groups are like families....every family has a spat around Christmas time....don't they!
I'm sure there have been some terrible things said to each other in general or in the recording studio.
There's no situation that isn't recoverable....so's there's always hope.
For me the present lineup, seen them at Chester earlier in the year, was a call for celebration, the best I've seen Man for years, George taking over the mantle of his Dad, Josh coming more to the fore like never before, Bob pounding out on the drums like his life depended on it, Martin being the front man, MC extrodinaire and finally Phil Ryan whose keyboards add so much to Man sound.
I was really hoping this lineup would take Man into their fourtieth anniversary. Not for just us the listeners but for themselves....with the publicity...could have been beneficial for them.  

[Rob the Organ]

No.  It's Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome

And.  There is nothing we (I) can do about the situation.  It's in the lap of the Gods.  It's them that need to be talking, not us.

Spot On, Mr B.

In fact the forum has been quiet all round whilst this has been going off. I now wish I hadn't given my gut reaction to Martin's message. However...I do think there will be something positive out of this.....the force is strong in the young one.....

I don't see what all the fuss is about. We are all here because we like a band that has never managed more than two albums per line up. The Truckers line up everybody raves about didn't even last six months. There have always been new Manbands on a regular basis (aside from Micky/Deke/Martin/Pug mainstay era) and it's never been a problem... until now, it seems.

Yes, it's a bit of a bummer that the Xmas gigs weren't honoured but that's the way it is. There will be some good music from more than one source next year. Great!

It all comes down to the fact that the very nature of forums like this make everything public within an instant and we all feel we have a buy-in. Which we do to an extent: without such a loyal fanbase there is no future for Man. But there is an element of "is band politics any of our business, really?" that I have been itching to burst forth with since last week, but held my tongue for fear of being shot down.

True, I noticed that there was a considerable drop off in number of posts (often I looked in and hit the "show unread" link; there was increasingly nothing). I like to think that it was the collective fan base taking a step back and waiting to see what happens when it happens when those involved are ready to make their move.

There's a few of us on here that gig and know that while a band is what gets us tapping our feet and punching the air, there is that whole element of business or family style behind the scenes "things" that are just as entitled to have some privacy about them as what goes on in our own homes.

Let's see what happens - we might even like it when it does!!!

[Alan Davies]

a) Yes....Well I've said what I needed to.
b) No.....Far from past caring, the music of Man is almost the soundtrack of my life.

[Rob the Organ]

John..spot on. If you had posted that before I spouted off (or simultaneously to be exact) I would have shut up!!

Give the band some space..then enjoy each twist and turn!

[Andrew P]

I'm still reeling - George's announcement came on the day of my 52nd birthday. Nothing I can add to the comments already posted, and very eloquent they are too, nice one chaps. I've kept off the postings just to see what transpires. I think I'll be going out to see a band somewhere in Swansea on 20 December, shame it won't be Man, and I'm just waiting for Nigel to put up the gig list for December so I can make an informed choice. If the Deke Leonard gig happens on 21 December as suggested, that's a bonus. Oh, and I'll try to get to The Plough at Walthamstow for Malcolm Morley and The Green Ray next Tuesday. So all is not quite lost, just changed around a bit, and I'll probably get to see a few Man band members even if they are not playing collectively as Man.

Who was it said "may you live in interesting times"?

[Jules]

Definitely not past caring Michael but, in deference to the people who really count, I've offered little comment until a more balanced outcome is agreed between the various parties.

The rift seems to have been sparked by a combination of both inside and outside events, with loyalties tested beyond breaking point in the emotionally charged atmosphere of trying to complete the new album under awkward circumstances. These things happen. Sometimes a reconciliation is possible, and sometimes it isn't. Very little is possible without communication.

In my view, we can't have two MAN bands on the go. We can have MAN and something else (maybe A.N.Other's Manband?), but only if there's a sense of acceptance from everyone involved.

For example, I could see Martin and Josh pushing MAN forward creatively. Martin's long association and management of the band, his connections with POiNT, and with the booking agents in both of MAN's main territories suggest to me that this is the more likely outcome for the MAN brand. James is a great guitar player by the way, and they'll have no problems in sustaining a show. How much of the back-catalogue would remain in the setlist is an interesting question. For me the second song in the first live show would be a key moment. Considering of course that the first should probably be 'Visionaries' (all irony aside); will the second be a MAN classic, or a new song from the several already written for the next new album?

I can also readily see a George Jones' Manband treading the boards, and majoring on the traditional (traditional? Are we really getting that long in the tooth?) favourites that brought us to the group in the first place. George is undoubtedly a fine player and singer, and if Bob stays on board then there's no doubt about the talent on display. The unanswered question here is more about forward progression. Will there be enough song-writing talent to sustain a new album? For me there aren't enough clues on 'Diamonds and Coal' to point the way, and of course the latest recordings may not see the light of day for a considerable time.

With both these bands on the go, that would double the potential gigs that I'd be interested in seeing. Who knows, that could be ooh say 12 cancellations a year instead of the usual 6     

[mikes]

Not past caring. Definitely almost without words.

[Martin Daughton]

In my view, we can't have two MAN bands on the go. We can have MAN and something else (maybe A.N.Other's Manband?), but only if there's a sense of acceptance from everyone involved.

Suggested names for A.N.Other:

Fire Man
Man 'o War
Mango
Manoeuvre
Manslaughter

Well - if you can't laugh...

[Dan Singh]

Suggested names for A.N.Other:

Fire Man
Man 'o War
Mango
Manoeuvre
Manslaughter

Well - if you can't laugh...

Shouldn't that be Man's laughter

No Man slander
Men 'o' pause
A man not dul

If Deke pulled the loose ends together, we could have the North Wales branch, MAN Chester re-united
If everyone got back together - Manuel

..and finally,

Our Men

[Jules]

How about:

Man To Van, Aye (or the Yorkshire version; Man To Van, Eee)
Man Banned