Author Topic: Roundhouse Documentary  (Read 19566 times)

Nick Nation

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2018, 12:16:48 PM »
Must confess I like 'What About Me'...it includes a track called 'Local Color', a Chippo song, which I think could be the origins of the trademark stomping on-the-beat Ace bassline...seems similar to 'Angel Easy' to me in parts...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVg32t11WAI
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Rob the Organ

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2018, 11:02:55 PM »
Must confess I like 'What About Me'...it includes a track called 'Local Color', a Chippo song, which I think could be the origins of the trademark stomping on-the-beat Ace bassline...seems similar to 'Angel Easy' to me in parts...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVg32t11WAI

Indeed, Nick, and there is Wolf Run on Just For Love - but they really were Cipollina's sole shining moments (other than a nice guitar solo on Subway). I've got the lot but seldom return to WAM or JFL. There's a 1970 gig out - poor old Cipollina doesn't even sound like he's playing in the same band anymore! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2lbkul

The topic of Valenti era QMS being somewhat Marmite-like is not new, as we all know - it is one of the most often aired topics in Man lore thanks to Deke's rather good account of meeting QMS that is now remembered in RW&L (book) but is actually an almost word for word recycling of a TWC (the magazine!) "Deke Speaks". Even allowing for Nick remembering a track or two, and mine below, and even if you are fond of "Fresh Air" as a hippy dream single, it still doesn't amount to much after the first two LPs.

But here is the thing: we do we never talk about Shady Grove (late 1969)? Cipollina still there, Freiburg still on bass and lead pipes, Elmore still drumming and session ace Nicky Hopkins added on piano, having been kicking his heels around 'Frisco - he was on JA's Volunteers and played with them at Woodstock and I'm guessing other dates. FWIW, I found Hopkins' ivories a little too polished on that release, and am no fan of Edward the Mad Shirt Grinder. I quite like Freiburg's stately Too Far and thought Joseph's Coat came close to harking back to the stark delivery of Pride of Man on the debut, although whether it beats the Nick Graventites (who co-wrote it) sung version on one of the post Janis BB&HC LPs is matter of taste!

Will have to listen to the rest again -  I seem to recall the title track was a pretty bog standard romp through the American folk standard once Hopkins' intro was done, and Three Or Four Feet From Home was a spirited if unremarkable rocker from Cipollina.

I think there's an element of us all 'loving to hate' Valenti, or at least boo/hiss him as the pantomime baddie - because he isn't in the band yet on Shady Grove but the album wasn't necessarily any better for that! But because we love all the band members on that album, we don't feel inclined to rubbish it - wheras not only did Valenti ruin a great band in many opinions, but he was very schmaltzy and pedestrian himself.

Dare I say that QMS were at their best live with Cipollina and Duncan letting rip, Freiburg singing and after the debut never really gave us a strong set of songs again. Many bands suffer from the sketch of having a big backlog of ideas that fuels their first LP but nothing in the creative coffers for after - and I think QMS were very much of that ilk, love them though I do...


happytrails

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2018, 12:22:37 PM »
Sad you may say and I really don't care but the intro to Local Colour is a a good mates ring tone on me phone...but no Cippo = bye bye QMS for me...even the Filmore QMS vid is crap with out him...that is my personal opinion though but then I think Nick knows how much of a Cip fan I am...
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Barry Island

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2018, 08:40:13 PM »
Had the old iPad on shuffle and 'Cippo' Live at The Keystone came on! Very enjoyable - not listened to as much as many of you guys but never heard anything less than stirring!
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Nick Nation

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2018, 04:35:48 PM »
This will be a first - just bringing a thread back on topic...a 1967 documentary on the Roundhouse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elkIed4qjPo&sns=fb

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happytrails

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2018, 06:20:24 PM »
There's loads of Cip gigs at archive.org... free downloads in flac and mp3 and a few other formats..they are not allowed to host any QMS.

Rob the Organ

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2018, 05:14:20 PM »
...but no Cippo = bye bye QMS for me...even the Filmore QMS vid is crap with out him...that is my personal opinion though but then I think Nick knows how much of a Cip fan I am...
Happy Trails everyone.

Broadly I agree with this but I think it is a two way street: no QMS = bye bye Cippo for me, too. Maximum Darkness was a different thing because he was a guest in a particular band, with the QMS songs chosen very much golden period stuff. But the day the copy of Copperhead's LP turned up and I scurried to the turntable ripping the card mailing envelope open as I did turned out to be one of the most disappointing days of my life. Very stodgy, workmanlike rock.

I think it is fair to say that Cipollina never found the right full-time vehicle ever again after QMS. Raven seems to have had plenty of talent but a bit of a muddle. The Gravenites/JC band was at least listenable although hardly pushed him or drew deeply on his unique talent, and likewise with Terry & the Pirates.

For me Jimmy Page is the same - a one-band man, forever searching for the second one that never quite comes along. Plenty of offers to collaborate because of who he is, but somehow it just doesn't happen, even with serious doses of talent in the melee.

Which, returning to Cipollina, is a shame because in Greg Douglass he'd found a great foil. Who even had the right initials!

happytrails

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2018, 11:25:46 AM »
Have to admit I enjoy the Pirates but The Dinosaurs were pretty damn fine IMO...but then I'm completely biased....

Nick Nation

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2018, 04:44:08 PM »
Must confess I like 'What About Me'...it includes a track called 'Local Color', a Chippo song, which I think could be the origins of the trademark stomping on-the-beat Ace bassline...seems similar to 'Angel Easy' to me in parts...

Having had another listen and look at the album sleeve, I note Gary Duncan is credited as playing bass as well as Freiberg...it doesn't specify on which tracks, but from a (dodgy) bassists perspective it doesn't sound like Freiberg on 'Local Color', his style is more loopy and up and downy for want of a better expression. So I suspect it's Gary Duncan playing bass on this track and therefore the unwitting inspiration of Man's perhaps most distinctive musical feature, i.e. the stomping on the beat bass line which served them so well over the years.
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Olly Goodwin

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2018, 07:38:04 PM »
Re. Mr. NAtion's " Man's perhaps most distinctive musical feature, i.e. the stomping on the beat bass line"
I think most distinctive feature is the best guitarist in the world. Plenty of bands managed plodding bass.
As for bass, the stomping line may be distinctive, but for me Man at their musical  best when John McKenzie and Ken Whaley on board, bringing light, shade, colour, variety, funkiness.

Nick Nation

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2018, 08:12:42 AM »
Warming to the theme, can anybody think of an earlier version of the Ace Bass than 'Local Color'?
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Colin Salter

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2018, 06:36:53 PM »
Arguably the Turtles' Happy Together has the same drive. 1967. Jeff Beck's Hi Ho Silver Lining too, from the same year.

Rob the Organ

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Re: Roundhouse Documentary
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2018, 06:11:34 AM »
...but The Dinosaurs were pretty damn fine IMO...but then I'm completely biased....

Had forgotten about that and shame on me, for Merl Saunders has been one of my biggest influences on organ  :-[

Re. Mr. NAtion's " Man's perhaps most distinctive musical feature, i.e. the stomping on the beat bass line"
Plenty of bands managed plodding bass....the stomping line may be distinctive, but for me Man at their musical  best when John McKenzie and Ken Whaley on board, bringing light, shade, colour, variety, funkiness.

Plenty of bands also managed to overplay, and that "plodding" bassline was a crucial feature to tunes that had plenty going on elsewhere; an anchor. You can't turn Romain into Bernadette. Ace did the stomp, Will did it. Ray Williams was more of a set-piece player, but essentially simple. It was another matter for Ken (the Jack Casady of Walthamstow!) and especially John to come in and add their magic to new material with their presence from the ground upwards. The Ryan/McKenzie era band wasn't even trying to nail the same thing as the earlier, more jamming based Manbands. It was 1976, styles had moved on and they were trying to crack the American market: leaner, slicker, funky was the order of the day.

John is without any argument the best bass player I've ever been priviledged enough to have worked with - we did a bluesy gig together last year, and the format required me to sing a handful of songs. You should have heard what he did with Allen Toussaint/Little Feat "On Your Way Down" and The Band "Up On Cripple Creek", completely off the cuff, flying by the seat of his pants. Such a lovely, unassuming guy, too. And he looks about 35. Bastard.