Album by album - To Live For To Die

[Rob the Organ]

Nick - now do the studio version of Alchemist can you?

There's something about "out of reach, split, and seemed to take my mind" in the chant, "Fading, departing" said by Martin among other things as the instrumental section winds down, and "Farewell, my bretheren! Farewell O Earth and sky!" from Deke - as a starter for you.

No hurry....

[Nick Nation]

Nick - now do the studio version of Alchemist can you?

Rob, we're on the wrong thread....besides, there's another version of 'Christians' to waffle on about yet...let's go to the 'Man' thread...

[Iowerth Pritchard]

Thanks to the thread, I've been playing this album a lot recently, trying to picture what's going on. I haven't got the CD version, but I note the running order of the LP is different - the CD seems to follow 'The Honest One' variant. Also 'Christians' is titled 'Micky and Martin Have No Name'. The actual running order, which I suspect is as it was on the night, is 'Storm', 'Daughter', 'Spunk', 'Conscience', 'Micky And Martin', 'Alchemist'.

A closer inspection of the between song banter reveals a couple of things that suggest the correct running order for the gig was in fact: Spunk Box / Conscience / The Storm / Daughter Of The Fireplace / Micky & Martin Have No Name (Would The Christians Wait...) / Alchemist Of The Mind, Scholar Of Consciousness (Part 1 &2)  This is based on: after DOTF someone (Martin I think) say something like 'man and a breeze' and then hums the 'Christians' riff, and after 'Conscience' someone says questioningly 'Storm?' (inferring it's next), and therefore the only correct order for what's presented on the 2LP/CDs is as above.  It's also possible there may be a song or two omitted before 'Spunk Box', maybe to fit the 2LP format. 

I have both an original vinyl boot and the Aulica boot CD, but hadn't heard the Point CD until I picked up a copy last week.  I can now see why some posters here have been so derogatory about this show if this is all they've heard.  It really is a dreadful version -  obviously taken from a badly worn copy of the vinyl which has been folded down into mono and then run very unsympathetically through de-crackling software.  I think this was the album cited by the Voicepants guy as having flecks of emulsion paint over it - and it sounds like it.  I did a side by side comparison of the 3 versions (see attached pdf) and both CDs have between track edits as well as some edits of the tracks themselves.  The original boot 2LP and the Aulica CD (which is definitely taken from vinyl) are both stereo, and despite some weird volume/mix fluctuations are a good listen once these limitations are acknowledged  If you can get a good copy of the original vinyl this is still the best way to hear this recording.  The Aulica CD is the next best but has been rather aggressively EQ'ed.  The Point CD is a very long way back in third, and it's a real shame that it's the most commonly heard version as it's sound quality badly detracts from what is a fascinating recording, and an essential piece of Manband history.

[Nick Nation]

Excellent stuff Mr P - a well deserved Karma point for you!

...after DOTF someone (Martin I think) say something like 'man and a breeze' and then hums the 'Christians' riff

...Suggesting the 'Christians' title was thought of late in the day.

[Rob W]

I have 2 cd's of this. The first was the poor sound (point?). Very poor, much of it hard to decipher. But I loved it. Was like reading a book where you conjure up your own picture, I'd listen and fill in the missing pieces.

Then a while later, the Rt Hon Peter Tuck, honorary adopted Scotsman, sent me the much better sounding cd. Like listening to a different album.

Got to be in the mood to listen to it, but when the mood takes you, a lovely piece of history.

From memory, highlight is the very embryonic MACBFGU.

One for the completist. 

[Rob the Organ]

If you can get a good copy of the original vinyl this is still the best way to hear this recording.  The Aulica CD is the next best but has been rather aggressively EQ'ed.  The Point CD is a very long way back in third, and it's a real shame that it's the most commonly heard version as it's sound quality badly detracts from what is a fascinating recording, and an essential piece of Manband history.

If anybody has a mint vinyl copy and is within a three-day yak ride of my home studio in Twickenham, I'll happily have a go at a 'definitive' mix that sorts the vinyl version out a bit but doesn't have the negative elements of either CD release.

[Newyorkmanfan]

I'm pretty sure the lyrics of would the christians sung by martin go something along the lines of

"It was a beautiful day in summer"
"We had a beautiful way"
I wonder where. Where you are Now"

"We had to struggle now, there ain't no summer now"

"Were not together I read
your letters words "
"Your halfway round the world"

That was in the beginning before the bridge and micky started singing.