Author Topic: Thought For The Day....  (Read 3071 times)

Allan Heron

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Thought For The Day....
« on: October 22, 2009, 04:50:26 PM »
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise,  we don't believe in it at all."   ~  Noam Chomsky
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Rob W

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Re: Thought For The Day....
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2009, 05:23:16 PM »
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise,  we don't believe in it at all."   ~  Noam Chomsky


No doubt you are referring to Nick Griffin on QT tonight.

In my extremely humble opinion, absolutey right, and unfortunately, correct for him to appear on the programme.

But, there is an unanswerable dilemma. If the right minded democratically minded, give a public platform to people who will not only then deny freedom of expression to others, but proceed to harm them, was it right to give those people that platform in the first place?

And could it be they be rightly accused of losing that freedom of expression by giving freedom of expression in the first place?      

I notice Allan, you cleverly side stepped giving your view.

More important, you didn't post on the subbuteo thread. Don't tell me you did not have subbuteo? Shame if you didn't!

Allan Heron

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Re: Thought For The Day....
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2009, 05:41:56 PM »
"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise,  we don't believe in it at all."   ~  Noam Chomsky


No doubt you are referring to Nick Griffin on QT tonight.

In my extremely humble opinion, absolutey right, and unfortunately, correct for him to appear on the programme.

But, there is an unanswerable dilemma. If the right minded democratically minded, give a public platform to people who will not only then deny freedom of expression to others, but proceed to harm them, was it right to give those people that platform in the first place?

And could it be they be rightly accused of losing that freedom of expression by giving freedom of expression in the first place?      

I notice Allan, you cleverly side stepped giving your view.

More important, you didn't post on the subbuteo thread. Don't tell me you did not have subbuteo? Shame if you didn't!

I used to flick to kick in the old days but I was, frankly, shite at it.

Give these guys a public platform and debate the issues with them - it's the only way to defeat them.   Banning them (as suggested by Hain - who used to be a Liberal: now he's not even liberal) just appeals to the massive chip that most of their followers have on their shoulders and helps to increase their support.
It's Just My View

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST........

Tim W

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Re: Thought For The Day....
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2009, 05:56:24 PM »
The estimable prof from MIT is always good for a pithy quote -

"Education is a system of imposed ignorance"

is another fave of mine, topped only by his sublime

"*Colorless green ideas sleep furiously".

Rob W

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Re: Thought For The Day....
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2009, 06:07:54 PM »


Give these guys a public platform and debate the issues with them - it's the only way to defeat them.   Banning them (as suggested by Hain - who used to be a Liberal: now he's not even liberal) just appeals to the massive chip that most of their followers have on their shoulders and helps to increase their support.

Doesn't work like that though though.

Irrespective of Nick Griffin's views, he is educated and will speak well. If the audience (and even panel?) heckle, he will know to paint a picture of charm and reasonableness, thus increasing his own and his party's credibility. Tonight will see a massive audience for the programme, and at risk of being up my own backside, many will be extremely naive. A good performance by Griffin will undoubtedly see BNP popularity increase.

As much as I say with massive reluctance, he has to be given the right to appear, the BBC is not our censor, it is an extremely tough call. There is a precedence where an Austrian painter who happened to be a fabulous orator preached similar in the 30.s................  

« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 06:09:37 PM by Rob W »

Allan Heron

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Re: Thought For The Day....
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2009, 06:23:01 PM »


Give these guys a public platform and debate the issues with them - it's the only way to defeat them.   Banning them (as suggested by Hain - who used to be a Liberal: now he's not even liberal) just appeals to the massive chip that most of their followers have on their shoulders and helps to increase their support.

Doesn't work like that though though.

Irrespective of Nick Griffin's views, he is educated and will speak well. If the audience (and even panel?) heckle, he will know to paint a picture of charm and reasonableness, thus increasing his own and his party's credibility. Tonight will see a massive audience for the programme, and at risk of being up my own backside, many will be extremely naive. A good performance by Griffin will undoubtedly see BNP popularity increase.

As much as I say with massive reluctance, he has to be given the right to appear, the BBC is not our censor, it is an extremely tough call. There is a precedence where an Austrian painter who happened to be a fabulous orator preached similar in the 30.s................  



I'm not just talking about tonight - I'm talking in general.  There's a widely held view that we should treat these guys as pariahs - which is fair enough if the point is about having a pint with them, but it's not when you're talking about political debate.  Tonight is only such an issue because it's such an exception to what's happened previously.

If they'd been tackled head on from the start, we might not have reached this point. 
It's Just My View

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST........